Finding The Best Sounding Genesis (Part II), Album By Album...

Might be a good explanation.

 

The V/C and Atco versions are basically clones. One disc is identical, on the other the level of the Atco has been reduced by something like 0.2 dB (Raf? does that sound right?). Since we assume that the V/C is the original digital version, if one was hyper-picky about the sound, the V/C is the way to go. If not, the Atco reproduces the original album art plus the LP inner sleeves (with the lyrics), and is, therefore, a much prettier package. If you've read all the posts in this thread, you probably already own both plus the DE plus....

 

Yup, exactly right. I think it's Disc 1 that has the difference in volume.

Yeah, whichever one you spot first, go with that one and be happy.

 

Some of the later V/C pressings of The Lamb have all the inner sleeves/lyrics, etc.

They are a bit tough to find though. I believe the DADC picture disc version and the Swindon pressings are the only ones with this feature.

 

Wow! I remember a discussion a while back where I mentioned that my Sanyo Japan pressed copy with no barcode had only a 4-page booklet while another member's no barcode Nimbus (?) had an 8- or 12-page booklet.

These early V/C covers were odd to say the least, but this version of the Lamb is a really ugly job. The cover features the album cover in a border (like the rest of the V/C titles), dispenses with the original band logo and title on the cover, features a close up of the waterfall as the back cover and only reproduces the back of the album art on the back of the booklet. The second page of my booklet features the band/recording credits in a standard font along with a copyright notice, and the third page is the old Compact Disc handling information in four languages. The story is not included, the lyrics are missing, the photos from the inside of the LP cover are missing as are the graphics from the LP inner sleeves. However, audiophiles will be pleased to know that "This Compact disc is not digitaly (sic) recorded."!!!

 

So does the V/C.

 

Woops. Sorry, I didn't read the last posts before posting.

Anyway, if you want the multi-page booklet version, there's one in the classifieds right now.

 

I don't suppose there's a summary consensus after lo these 1000+ posts?

 

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=3028535&postcount=45

 

Gracias.

 

Just received my copy of a V/C Foxtrot. It's an EMI Swindon copy. Not as good as the Nimbus, from what I'm reading here. Just as a point of reference, though, how much difference is there?

 

Listened to a couple of tracks from my new EMI/Swindon pressed-in-Japan (?) V/C copy of Foxtrot. Significant improvement over the first Atlantic mastering. Sounds deeper, more solid, more detailed, but no louder or brighter. Seems to me the mastering comes from a better tape, maybe even the original master. Ver nice. Thanks, folks.

 

I'll try to surmise, and, hopefully, not screw anything up (if you want the full story, check Part 1 of this thread plus the Archives and search for Foxtrot and Megastore).

We have determined three distinct masterings of Foxtrot with a possible fourth. The known ones are:

Atlantic (aka Zal's)

EAC levels = 87.5 % - 85.1 % 91.7 % - 100.0 % - 85.8 % - 100.0 %


V/C Nimbus

EAC levels = 99.0 % - 90.5 % - 98.4 % - 100.0 % - 100.0 % - 100.0 %


V/C Megastore

EAC levels = 83.9 % - 79.9 % - 73.8 % - 96.3 % - 56.1 % - 92.9 %


We have determined that the UK Nimbus pressing has been cloned in Holland and on the DADC Austria picture discs.

Phil Elliott has had PDO UK, EMI Swindon and Nimbus pressings. In his opinion, the PDO and EMI were similar (if not the same), while the Nimbus was slightly different, being a little brighter and more exciting to listen to.

Andreas has expressed a preference for the Megastore version, and hatfield posted that he had a Disctronics UK pressing that seemed to match the samples Andreas posted from his disc.

Jeff has posted that he had an early V/C pressing (the possible fourth version?) that he did not like, but is happy with the DADC Austria picture disc edition, which has been shown to match the Nimbus.

So, using the above levels, you should be able to determine whether the EMI is a clone of a known version, or yet another distinct mastering. If you share Phil's taste in sound quality, at worst you have a slightly dull version compared to the 'best'.

Finally, we have also determined that there is a fade-up on the start of Time Table on the Nimbus version, while the opening to Watcher Of The Skies is missing from the Atlantic.

I think that's everything. Now, where is that wiki when we need it?

 

Thanks very much, Black Elk.

EAC reports the peak levels on my EMI/Swindon "Foxtrot" as follows:

99.0 % - 90.5 % - 98.4 % - 100.0 % - 100.0 % - 100.0 %

So it looks as if the EMI/Swindon V/C "Foxtrot" and the Nimbus V/C "Foxtrot" are clones. They're pressed at different plants, so I'm not surprised they sound slightly different, but the evidence suggests the masterings are identical. FWIW, I'm impressed by the sound of my EMI/Swindon V/C "Foxtrot"--wouldn't necessarily want it any brighter. Big, open, full sound.

Sure enough, there's a quick fade-in at the beginning of "Time Table"--cuts off the initial attack. Alas! But the sound, while a little hot in the upper-midrange, is still very nice.

BTW, what is that chiming solo instrument in "Time Table"? Sounds almost like a hammered dulcimer.

 

Another mystery solved!

I believe that is the sound of Tony Banks banging his head against his PC monitor while reading Jamie's SACD reviews on Amazon!!!

 

The best sounding Genesis is a bootleg.

It is the remaster of the Dutch Test Pressing (2LP) of the officially released album GENESIS LIVE. This one sounds better than all official releases of that album. It includes the song "Supper's Ready" which is not part in the official release.

It is a TM productions release. Sound is awesome.

TM productions was contacted by Genesis management about this remaster. Why? The band was so impressed by his work that they felt they had to let him know!

 

It's close to being the best version. TM likes to use a bit of NR at times.

 

Received a Made in Japan for US Atlantic Duke yesterday. This thread works! Enjoy it a lot - the vocals are much more lifelike.

The bottom end on this version reminded me of one of Nick Davis's few posts that he made here: http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=1324024&postcount=25

That's probably my only gripe with the sound of any Duke CD (with the original mix) is that the bass always seems artificial (boosted). The old Atlantic seems to have a more solid bottom end, but it just goes to show that the master is no sonic nirvana.

Oh, and I happened to notice while searching for the above quote that Nick Davis did log onto the SH forums a few days back. I won't read into that, but I will say it's interesting to assume we are on the radar, so to speak.

 

Just finished listening to Foxtrot and Nursery Cryme, both EMI-Swindon V/C original UK pressings (don't know why I said Japan above--never mind). Both sound excellent, with an unusually wide and deep soundstage and very lifelike vocals.

The EMI V/C Nursery Cryme sounds much, much better than either the original Atlantic US issue or the Definitive Edition remaster. The original Atlantic sounds strangely EQ'd and seems to come from an iffy tape. The DE remaster sounds pinched, for lack of a better word. It seems that the original mix is pretty muddy in the lower midrange and upper bass, but to correct for this the DE adopts a smiley EQ (to my ears, anyway) that sucks the life out of the music. The EMI V/C, by contrast, sounds very relaxed and open and detailed, with plenty of sonic power, though maybe a little over-full around 80-160 hz. That said, though, the EMI V/C of Nursery Cryme is the best I've ever heard this album sound. Very dramatic and involving.

The EMI V/C "Foxtrot" also sounds very nice, better than the US Atlantic by a considerable amount. I haven't done a full shootout yet, though I do remember how dull and dried-out the DE remaster sounded....

Plenty of bass in these CDs, for sure. I wonder when the thinness that Nick Davis talks about becomes an issue. I don't hear thin bass in any UK original-mastering Genesis up through and including Trick. Haven't heard W&W yet, though.

 

I need a clarification about the V/C Foxtrot.

I have one that is a picture disc and one that is not. Both say made in Japan in the booklet.

Which is which -- Nimbus, Swindon, etc.

Also, if anyone can recommend an EAC equivilent for mac, I'd get more out of the posts that have these readings.

 

You need to look at the information around the center ring of the disc. The picture discs that I have say DADC Austria or Mastered By DADC Austria on them (one even says Made In Austria on the picture label). Nimbus discs say Mastered By Nimbus, while the EMI's merely say EMI Swindon. All of them will also contain catalog number information. CASCD codes for Nimbus and DADC, and a Virgin 7xxxxx x x code for EMI Swindon.

Of course, your discs could also have been made in Japan. I have one early V/C made by Sanyo that has a CGSCD code, and which matches the Nimbus mastering according to all the data that this thread has turned up.

 

That's the problem, you can't hear the tinkling of the ivories; no wonder Tony Banks wanted these re-mixed!!!

I just played my Nimbus for the first time in ages. If I would level one criticism at it, I would say it seems like all the low bass has been taken out by a high-pass filter. There are only a few spots where any really deep bass notes appear.

The bass pedal notes on Can-Utility on Foxtrot and Supper's Ready on Seconds Out will get your flares flapping!

There's obviously something wrong with your system if you can't hear the lack of bass on these old discs. Even Tony Banks knows that!

The V/C of Wind & Wuthering lacks the bell-bottom flapping bass of some of the other titles. And Then There Were Three also does not seem to plumb the depths that Foxtrot or Seconds Out does.

 

You're right, my Trespass picture disc does say made in Austria on the disc art, while Foxtrot and Nursery Crime have it in the ring only. My other V/C Foxtrot has the CASCD code in the ring, but no other info at all.

Interesting that they say made in Japan in the booklet, when they weren't.

Thanks to your info I've been able to identify the mastering on my other V/C's. I have a couple of Nimbus and a couple of WG ones.

Fun.

 

I'm no Jamie, but I thought it might be fun to play "comparison" on a bit of "Can-Utility and the Coastliners" from Foxtrot.

The three masterings here are the "Definitive Edition Remaster," the original US Atlantic mastering, and the original UK EMI/Swindon pressing. Can you tell which is which? Disclaimer: I've raised the average RMS level of the US Atlantic to match that of the other two discs.

Here you go. They're full-Redbook-quality .wav files, so be patient. If the wait is too long, I can redo the clip in mp3.

 

This is my guess:

EMI/Swindon-US Atlantic-Definitive Edition Remaster.

The De is very easy to pinpoint if you listen for tape hiss. It clarly has less hiss than the others and sounds a bit closed in.

It's not that easy to tell the difference between the other two. The Swindon version is a little sharper/brighter. Also the bass seems to be a little bloated/deeper on the Atlantic version.