Finding The Best Sounding Genesis (Part II), Album By Album...

Hi Kevin,

I was the one who cancelled out your tracks.

I have the "target" and the V/C of Abacab, and I prefer the V/C. Never owned the US Atlantic but don't feel I need to.

From the few clips I've heard, the US Atlantics seem warmer but lack definition. That's my take on them, anyway.

Bill

 

Hmmm....I thought the S/T Vertigo was for sure different than the Atlantic.

 

I agree with there being variables within the recommended V/C's - I have two: Duke and ATTOT. Both are German blueface silver hub, with "814" beginning in each matrix.

The German blueface V/C Duke has totally different peak levels from the recommended V/C - and I don't like the sound at all and would not recommend it.

Regarding the German blueface V/C ATTOT - I cannot provide peak levels yet - but it sounds very different from the Japan for USA Atlantic - not as nice.

Perhaps we can recommend the V/C's, but with one exception - not the German blueface silver hub versions.

Also, as a somewhat unrelated side note: I've confirmed that Wind & Wuthering, UK V/C Sonopress in matrix, does have Pre-emphasis.

 

That’s very interesting. How does this CD sound? Does it lack bottom end? Do you have the EAC log? Is the CD divided into 8 or 9 tracks?

 

I still say Atco for Trick of the Tail

 

Have you heard the silver-face V/C?

 

I have not. Admittedly, I am a touch uninformed.

 

I had to do a "Detect TOC Manually" in EAC "0095pb3" version. The cd drive on my PC is currently out of commission, so you'll have to take my word for it.

Yes, it (the UK W&W early V/C CDSCD 4005) sounds very different from all others I've heard. Whereas this cd typically has lacked bottom end, this UK version sounds even more, umm, "bottomless." Tracklisting below. (There's an 8-track version?)

It's very thin, but I prefer it to the muddy Japan for USA Atlantic. And both versions are much, much smoother than the DE version, which, of course, is the only version with a nice bottom end.

You just can't have it both ways with this recording.

The only way to hear all the music is to listen to the (UK, IMO) vinyl.

1 Eleventh Earl Of Mar 7:44
2 One For The Vine 10:01
3 Your Own Special Way 6:19
4 Wot Gorilla? 3:21
5 All In A Mouse's Night 6:39
6 Blood On The Rooftops 5:28
7 Unquiet Slumber For The Sleepers... 2:25
8 ...In That Quiet Earth 4:48
9 Afterglow 4:14

Total Time: 50:55

 

Yeah if it wasn't already bad enough having to deal with old Atlantics, V/C's, Targets, and Vertigos, the fact that there are a few different pressings of each makes it almost insane.

Can we do even a more dumbed down guide: if you aren't looking at the different pressing/matrix variations between versions (eg 2nd pressing Atlantic) what are versions should be sought after? V/Cs? I think I might go crazy asking sellers about matrix info all the time.

Also so it is a done deal that the V/C and Atlantic of Selling England are identical and this is also the case for Lamb except the second disc of the Atlantic is a different volume?

 

I think the matrix #'s are the best way to differentiate between various V/C's and Atlantics for the time being.

Here are two sets of peak levels for two pressings of the Atlantic Selling England By The Pound.
One is Made in USA, the other W. Germany (Sonopress) for USA.

Made in USA.
Matrix: 3 19277-2 SRC=02 M1S6
Peak levels:
Track 1: 95%
Track 2: 92.2%
Track 3: 95.5%
Track 4: 60.9%
Track 5: 76.4%
Track 6: 52.7%
Track 7: 73.6%
Track 8: 59.7%


Made in W. Germany (Sonpress) for USA version:
Matrix: SONOPRESS CASCD 1074 B
Peak levels:
Track 1: 99.5%
Track 2: 96.5%
Track 3: 100%
Track 4: 63.8%
Track 5: 80%
Track 6: 55.2%
Track 7: 77.1%
Track 8: 62.5%

 

haha oh boy your EAC results make me want to just throw up my hands and give up. You're right it probably is the best but there must be a simpler rule of thumb?

If those EACs are different, then how is the Atlantic of Selling identical to the V/C?

 

Neither of which match the DADC V/C picture disc (matrix = CASCD-1074 12A5 A5)):

99.5 % - 96.5 % - 97.7 % - 62.4 % - 78.2 % - 53.9 % - 75.4 % - 61.1 %

unless the Sonopress and DADC differ only in track starts that affect peak values? I could see that happening for an album that segues from track to track, but that's not the case here.

Does anyone remember where in Part One the determination was made that V/C = Atlantic? Jeff? Raf? Where are you guys?

 

All the more reason to include the Matrix #'s when discussing different pressings.

Don't despair, GD. I've never heard a bad version of Selling England By The Pound. I think they're all pretty good - and the peak level differences in my two Atlantics at first appeared to be approx. 4.5% greater for each track of the W. German Sonopress for USA. But I see this changes a bit.

One clue may be the matrix info of the W. German for USA: the "CASCD 1074" in the matrix may refer to the UK V/C mastering.

Someone out there probably knows the answer to this.

I'd like to suggest a webpage for keeping track of all of this Peak Level and Matrix info - something like the Needledrop Wiki - but without the sound samples - to augment this thread.
http://needledrop.wikispaces.com/David+Bowie+CD+Comparisons

It could help us further the discussion without having to constantly page backward through over 1000 posts. It is getting rather complicated.

 

The DADC and the original US Atlantic are the same.

 

I did one recently.

 

Got it. So, that means there are 3 sets of EAC values for Atlantic SEBTPs. Have we determined what matrix number Atlantic matches the DADC?

Moreover, does anyone know whether any of the values HiFi Guy posted match any other V/C editions? Nimbus? EMI Swindon? Etc.?

 

Indeed you did, sir, and I referenced it only a few posts ago. Here it is again: http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=2945876&postcount=922

 

Once again this thread has lead me to something nice. I got the V/C And Then There Were Three CD today and am quite pleased with the sound. It's replaced my Atlantic CD (and the Target).

 

Yeah go for the V/Cs seems to be the simple version (plus some caveats for some Atlantics) Shouldn't Lamb have both the V/C and Atlantic as the picks are they are practically identical?

 

Jamie: how would you say the Target differs from the V/C of ATTWT? significantly worse?

 

The target is digitally identical to the Atlantic (but was lowered in volume 2dB for some strange reason).

The V/C is just better. It sounds like the difference between a master and safety dub. Neither are bad it's just the V/C is better.

 

I agree. I have the V/C Nimbus; A tad bass shy maybe, but very nice.

Actually the DE of this is one is not too bad either.

 

I just think that was David's mixing style back then. Wind & Wuthering is the same way.

 

I have a V/C vinyl pressing of W&W and there definitely is better bass on it. Don
t have it around me right now. Probably those two records were a little bass shy too, not sure

 

Well, the Atco vinyl has no such lack of bottom end. It might have been added during the cutting but I am still convinced that this recording might have well had a lot of bottom end and an EQd production tape rolled a lot off to work for vinyl somewhere along the way. This tape was likely then used for all CDs.

Just a guess.