Finding The Best Sounding Genesis (Part 1), Album By Album...

Hey Jeff: the seller is saying the CD is made in Japan by Victor So does this mean it isn't the pressing then? Or were some of the original atlantics pressed in Japan?

 

That's a good pressing but it isn't as good as the later WEA pressing that Jamie and I are discussing.

 

Any difference between the US WEA pressing and the US JVC pressing (bottom reads: Manufactured by JVC Disc America Co. Made In U.S.A.)?

 

Here's the scan of my copy of Duke. Made in U.S.A. by WEA Manufacturing, Inc.

 

Jeff: ok, do the WEA and Victor pressings both have the same number on the spine of the jewelcase inserts? (is that the right term? serial number? like 38101-2 for the non-remastered Atlantic of Trick of the Tail like Jamie posted)

ashlee5: thanks for the scan

 

Catalog number. And yes, they do.

 

Catalog number! Thank you Now it makes sense...I guess I'll have to check and see who has it...

 

I just got the Atlantic "Foxtrot" - night and day compared to the DE for sure. Much warmer, more air, and the bass - wow. I never knew that low-end extension even existed on this album.

My questions:

1) How different is the V/C from the Atlantic release and what are the sonic differences? In other words, is it still worth the trouble to hunt down a V/C if I own and dig the Atlantic?

2) Is anybody familiar with the UK V/C Genesis releases that actually had the album covers on the disc themselves? Or was this commonplace amongst the V/C's?

Thanks.

 

Though many members here are far more in the know when it comes to these remasters, I have to completely disagree with this one. First, let me confirm that we are talking about the same exact disc.

I have Duke - Atlantic 16014-2 manufactured by Victor Company Of Japan. It's the disc with the red and black ring running close to the outer edge of the disc. It was made for the U.S. market.

The other disc I have is CBRCD 101 Virgin/Charisma Made in W. Germany. It's a blue faced disc.

To my ears, there is one huge difference between these discs. Bass. The Atlantic has it and the V/C doesn't. It only takes a few seconds on the first track to hear how different these two discs sound. I wouldn't be surprised if the U.S. disc Jeff is talking about matches the Japanese disc. If the copies you have Jeff don't sound the same, then something changed along the way with the mastering on the Japan disc because it sounds nothing like the V/C disc I have. Unless of course the V/C disc changed Anyway, the Atlantic Japan disc I have sounds incredible and nothing I've heard so far touches it.

 

In case this is of any help, here is the eac log and a picture of the Atlantic Japan Duke disc.


EAC extraction logfile from 16. September 2006, 14:56 for CD
Genesis / Duke

Used drive : _NEC DVD_RW ND-3550A Adapter: 1 ID: 0
Read mode : Secure with NO C2, accurate stream, disable cache
Read offset correction : 48
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : No

Used output format : Internal WAV Routines
44.100 Hz; 16 Bit; Stereo

Other options :
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000


Track 1
Filename C:\Duke\01 - Behind The Lines.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:02.49

Peak level 87.0 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Test CRC FDB67994
Copy CRC FDB67994
Copy OK

Track 2
Filename C:\Duke\02 - Duchess.wav

Peak level 87.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 337540D4
Copy CRC 337540D4
Copy OK

Track 3
Filename C:\Duke\03 - Guide Vocal.wav

Peak level 51.1 %
Track quality 99.8 %
Test CRC 245094FE
Copy CRC 245094FE
Copy OK

Track 4
Filename C:\Duke\04 - Man Of Our Times.wav

Peak level 89.1 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC ED7AEF3B
Copy CRC ED7AEF3B
Copy OK

Track 5
Filename C:\Duke\05 - Misunderstanding.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:01.56

Peak level 87.0 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Test CRC 31A88145
Copy CRC 31A88145
Copy OK

Track 6
Filename C:\Duke\06 - Heathaze.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:02.26

Peak level 87.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 358B1176
Copy CRC 358B1176
Copy OK

Track 7
Filename C:\Duke\07 - Turn It On Again.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:02.53

Peak level 89.1 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC A08AB97A
Copy CRC A08AB97A
Copy OK

Track 8
Filename C:\Duke\08 - Alone Tonight.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:02.33

Peak level 89.1 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 060B2F74
Copy CRC 060B2F74
Copy OK

Track 9
Filename C:\Duke\09 - Cul-De-Sac.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:01.64

Peak level 89.1 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Test CRC 984DC1CE
Copy CRC 984DC1CE
Copy OK

Track 10
Filename C:\Duke\10 - Please Don't Ask.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:00.77

Peak level 86.5 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC D93BCF66
Copy CRC D93BCF66
Copy OK

Track 11
Filename C:\Duke\11 - Duke's Travels.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:01.76

Peak level 87.0 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Test CRC 19BC3F87
Copy CRC 19BC3F87
Copy OK

Track 12
Filename C:\Duke\12 - Duke's End.wav

Peak level 87.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC F2A27607
Copy CRC F2A27607
Copy OK

No errors occured


End of status report

 

Here are the first four tracks from the V/C Blue Face I mentioned. No doubt it's different from the Japan disc.


EAC extraction logfile from 4. March 2007, 1:59 for CD
Genesis / Duke

Used drive : _NEC DVD_RW ND-3550A Adapter: 1 ID: 0
Read mode : Secure with NO C2, accurate stream, disable cache
Read offset correction : 48
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : No

Used output format : Internal WAV Routines
44.100 Hz; 16 Bit; Stereo

Other options :
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000


Track 1
Filename C:\DUKE VC\01 - Behind The Lines.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:02.42

Peak level 91.3 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 731D4C8F
Copy OK

Track 2
Filename C:\DUKE VC\02 - Duchess.wav

Peak level 88.4 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 1667A6AB
Copy OK

Track 3
Filename C:\DUKE VC\03 - Guide Vocal.wav

Peak level 45.7 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 9CAB4331
Copy OK

Track 4
Filename C:\DUKE VC\04 - Man Of Our TImes.wav

Peak level 94.5 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Copy CRC 86B784BB
Copy OK

 

I'll take your word for it as I never compared them directly, but I prefer the US Atantic to the Japanese pressing anyway.

 

This is kind of a long shot, but is it at all possible that the West German blue faced disc is identical not with the later CBRCD 101 UK Virgin/Charisma Dukes, but rather with the earlier West German Charisma 810 Dukes? Naturally, I've just sold my UK CBRCD 101 UK Duke here on the forums (pressed in France by MPO and no UPC code on the back), so I can't put it through EAC. However, it's definitely a different mastering from the Charisma 810. The CBRCD 101 and the Charisma 810 also had really different total times, with the Charisma about 15 or 20 seconds shorter, like 54:50 or so. Hatfield, what's the total time on your blue faced CBRCD 101?

I have to say, having recently A-to-B-to-C'ed my US Atlantic, French-pressed CBRCD 101 and the West German Charisma, the US Atlantic only narrowly beat out my CBRCD 101. I did hear what Jeff talks about, the CBRCD 101 was just a little more tizzy, and I certainly didn't notice it having no bass. So maybe it is possible that the CBRCD 101s changed?

Curiouser and curiouser....

Geoff

 

So you said, and so you were proven (today!) Found one in the used bins - Made in USA Atlantic red rim, bar code on back. We shall see how it it compares to the DE very soon...

 

I just got a Virgin Charisma of NC from Amazon UK (marketplace). It sounds miles better than the Definitive Edition IMO.

Tim

 

I'll look into how I can post some samples of the two Duke discs I have when I get home from work.

 

Jeff I got the WEA pressing and I like it very nice sounding.


Sorry I might have missed this earlier, but do people still think the Target CD of And Then There Were Three is really bass lacking? Is DE the real only option or would a Target be better. I only ask because I have the opportunity to buy the Target CD of ATTWT.

Also I can get two Barry Diament CDs of Led Zeppelin

 

I haven't heard the Target of ATTWT, but the Virgin/Charisma suffers from the same problem as W&W in its original form: Lack of bottom end.

 

The target is digitally identical to the Atlantic except the target is lower in volume.

 

The target is digitally identical to the Atlantic except the target is lower in volume.

 

The target is digitally identical to the Atlantic except the target is lower in volume.

 

This thread has become very confusing. I have no idea what disc is being discussed half the time and I've been following the thread from the very beginning.

A note about Duke:

The US Atlantic disc I have (and posted the picture of earlier) and the Japan (at JVC) disc I also have have the same peak levels all the way and appear to be digitially identical. Running times are slightly different but once you remove the silent gaps the wave files match perfectly across the 2 CDs.

 

Okay, but do they sound different to you?

There may have been some early US Atlantics that were the same as the original Japan pressed Atlantic discs, but there is no question that at some point, a transfer was done by WEA that is slightly less crisp, and IMO, the holy grail for Duke. The time difference is only 2 seconds and they seem to have the exact same levels, but there is a small difference.

 

Btw, for the record, the 1994 DE of Trick is pretty heavily no-noised. I happened to hear this one yesterday for the first time in quite a while, and it was really apparent.

 

The US Atlantic I have was done by WEA, although that doesn't tell us much.

I haven't spent much time comparing the 2 discs (and I got the Japan disc just a few weeks ago) but I remember thinking that the Japan disc did sound a bit different from the US disc. I was surprised when I ran the two discs through EAC and found them to appear identical.

I have no reason to doubt your observation and will spend more time listening to them in the days ahead.