Faces of The Loudness War

Thanks Metoo.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
...where we evaluate records with the best systems we can find, in order to know what the record really sounds like...
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Hi Barry.

When I said they sound better in the car, I meant they sounded "less crappy" than they would on my main system. Not "better" than, say an SH mastered disc, but better than the compressed cd does in a good listening environment.

Just wanted to clarify.

 

Ha ha, let's make fun of the metalheads.

Oh, so it's garbage?! (sorry, couldn't resist)
Anyway, nin has pointed out that there ARE people (I'm one, too) who like "this crap" yet have discerning ears.

 

I listened to Neil Diamond's 12 Songs exclusively on my car stereo & thought it was a very good sounding disc. Months later I purchased new home speakers. When my mom came by I wanted to impress her with the sound of my new speakers. I chose 12 Songs as she is a Neil Diamond fan. I was floored by how awful it sounded!!!!! It was as if it were a different CD.

 

Apparently...which is frustrating, because many of her past records (Universal Mother, perhaps others, I just can't remember just now) stated in the CD liner notes, "this is meant to be listened to WITH HEADPHONES". What's the point if it is so loud? I HOPE she had nothing to do with this.

And with the Rubin thing, I was trying to point out that he is not innocent in the loudness race.

And a word about car systems--I dunno, if it's highly compressed and loud, it still sounds like crap. Uncompressed stuff in my car sounds pretty good, actually. I just need to...turn it up

 

Hi daved64,

I understand.
Still, I find that even in the car, a good recording can be identified as such, just as a compressed one can be identified as what it is. Yes, the low level information sometimes gets lost in road noise but the overall sound is to my ears, more clear and more "alive", which is how I like my music to sound.

I find there is a sonic price to pay for getting over the road noise.
An unsqueezed recording frees me from having to pay this price and the music (again, to my ears) just comes through better.

I feel there really should be a button the car stereo allowing those who prefer the compressed sound to have it while allowing those who prefer the uncompressed sound to hear the recording as is.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Depeche Mode Playing the Angel CD:



The vinyl:



I've heard this vinyl, and it is definitely softer. I think it has more atmosphere, more nuance, as a DM record should. However, there are moments of distortion.

I've taken these from this site: Depeche Mode - Playing The Angel - Another victim of the loudness race

 

Our 1999 Ford Windstar had a compression button on it. The van was a piece of crap, and the tranny died after 60,000 miles - twice! But the stereo had some good features.

 

For a couple decades, people listened to music in their cars on 8-track, cassette and CD long before they started to squash dynamics and nobody complained. The music sounded great! You would prefer a non-musical, fatiguing, compressed, distorted sound in your car?

 

You read my mind! One of my cars already has an auto volume that detects how fast the car is going and adjusts the volume accordingly.

Besides, just how much noise can there be in a modern car, anyways? One of my cars is a Civic - Plenty of road, wind and engine noise; I have no problem hearing everything on the CDs I play in it.

 

That I completely agree with The product shouldn't be degraded. On reproduction gear of limited range or that is intended to be used in noisy environments, there should be controls the listener can use to adjust dynamics appropriately for their conditions. By now they should be as ubiquitous as the volume bass and treble...

 

Barry, if you continue like this I'm going to have to buy myself a clapping machine.

 

Nope, I'm not making fun of them. The idea of the dandruff just crossed my mind when I saw them. They could have been the descendants of "The Thing" from the Munsters for all I care and I would have probably made the same connection. So, no, it wasn't about them, it was just that the head banging was so constant that I made the connection. Period.

BTW, I wear my hair long and, no, I don't usually suffer from dandruff.

And I am quite sure more people would like it if much of it were better recorded.

Have you ever tried sharing your view on the sound of some of these records with any of your metal peers?

 

You guys don't get it, the more distorded the better ! Kick *** man ! I only push the volume to 2, and already, the sound is bitchin ! Cool ! Hey Bill, hey Ted, EXCELLENT ADVENTURE ! Yeah ! Who care about dynamics ! LOUD !

 

When I read this it just dawned on me: Why not give us unsmashed music and if anyone wants theirs limited to the splat degree they can always use those ever more present digital compression plugins and commit all the destruction they want on their files for personal listening/ear lashing?

 

Interesting... Spirit Crusher, have you checked out to see how the SACD fairs in this regard?

 

Yes, this is quite an interesting feature, but it has nothing to do with compression. Compression is not solely about volume, it's about the dynamics of the music.

 

Or release two versions of the CD (ala Widescreen vs. Pan & Scan with DVDs): One mastered properly and one destroyed.

Even if the nice one was only available via mailorder (or even by flac download!), at least people could get it if they really wanted.

 

Because if they care so little about sound as to think hypercompressed music sounds good, they're not going to care enough to learn how to use those plugins, loudness buttons, etc. Lowest-common-denominator-itis. Sad.

 

True, yet is would seem that there is a growing breed of living room recordists who are very into misusing them. Just check out some digital audio forums on the Internet.

 

Better yet, put both in the same package and get the consumer to fill out a survey as to which version they prefer.

 

And for me this is the scary part.


"MF: Something has to be done about that. Can’t you control the mastering guy? “Vlado, lay off!”

RR: The difference is though, I wish I had examples here to play for you. If I knew we were going to talk about this I’d go through the library and find examples. Ultimately, if you listen on a car sound system or in thye mainstream place where most people listen to music—cars, boomboxes sound systems you get at (chain stores), and if you “A/B” the less compressed version to the more compressed version, you pick the compressed version.

MF: Even in a good car stereo?

RR: Even in a good car stereo. We do shoot-outs all the time. I master with as many as five different mastering engineers mastering the same album and then we “A/B” them and it’s interesting, Vlado wins nine out of ten times, and he claims it’s not him. He’s got technology in that room that’s a 2 million dollar mastering suite that other people don’t have. "


What exactly are they using in their mastering studio for loudspeakers/monitors? An AMC Gremlin, Ford Pinto? I'm losing the plot here...

Barry, or the others, would you chime in with your professional experiences with respect to the mastering environment? So they (the five engineers?) would all master the album in a certain way, correctly in some cases and then the Vlad the Impaler way in an other, and then take a CD copy to an environment where the Trailer Park Boys A/B it? Is this the process RR is referring to?

I can't imagine that test passing any of the testing criteria of the AES.

Cheers.

 

Barry, I was not speaking for us but for joe sixpack. They will prefer the more compressed version.

 

Are you sure the distortion is on the vinyl and not on the playback side?

 

The fact they are testing masters in a car suggests to me that they aren't comparing the different versions at the same loudness. This means they would be susceptible to prefering the more compressed version simply because it sounds louder.