Emerson Lake And Palmer 'Brain Salad Surgery' SACD

As soon as I have the CD (it's on backorder), my comments will be forthcoming and I will discuss how the disc compares to Barry's version, the WG Manticore and the Victory (aka Rhino aka corrected Castle).

 

Thanks.

I ordered the BSS deluxe and Pictures delux sets a few days ago. Pictures shipped today. BSS hasn't been shipped yet but is "in stock." I've never dealt with AmazonUK before, wondered how they measure up.

No big deal, just wondering.

 

IIRC, when the DVD-A was released, there was some question as to why the original two-track mix wasn't included. The excuse from the mfrs at the time was that the the original masters could not be located in time for release.

 

That was clear to me back in the day when the Victory was the new thing. Definitely an upgrade. But Levenson's story seems to be different from what I remember Palmaccio saying in ICE -- or perhaps it's just a different perspective on the same story. I'll have to dig out my old ICEs and get the quote.

It also seems odd that a single 'master mix reel' for KE9 would have both sessions on it - the Chris Kimsey one and the other, which clearly have different sound -- unless it's a splice? My impression from the ICE article, was that there was a separate master tape for the Kimsey session (which, IIRC, was just part one, of the 1st impression, but I could well be misremembering that) -- and that it hadn't been used since the earliest LP pressings, explaining the somwhat worse SQ of that section on many versions. Victory claimed to be using it for their CD.

 

5.1 Entertainment Group (Silverline) released a number of DVD-A's without a stereo mix. The company apparently didn't obtain the rights to release stereo in those cases and made faux surround from stereo or mono sources. Many obviously weren't very good.

Chris

 

I listened to the surround mix on the SACD last night and it sounded real sweet. Nice dynamics and clarity. Very well done.

I have the DVD-A (purchased when it first came out) and I didn't compare the two, since I didn't have time - so I can't fully say if it is exactly the same mix... but in the liner notes it indicates the SACD includes a 5.1 mix never before available in the U.K. My assumption regarding that statement is that this is the same 5.1 mix available on the DVD-A (which was released in the U.S. and not officially in the U.K).

Regardless, I was very impressed with the quality of the SACD sound with regards to the 5.1 mix - and for the price I paid (about $28.00 shipped from Amazon.co.uk) it was well worth it - considering I also get a SACD stereo mix, CD stereo mix (both on the SACD and regular CD - which others have said may be a different master), and a bonus disc of about 64 minutes of music.

 

Its just nice to have a rock SACD to put on after all this time.

Looking forward to the upcoming Genesis SACDs.

 

I've now consulted my old ICE back issues...and I can't find any of the quotes I seemed to remember

I did find the announcement of the Victory 'Return of the Manticore' and catalog remaster series, in the Nov 1993 issue, and only Mr. Levenson is quoted...basically saying that they are using the original masters, and for many of the albums it's the first time they were used...but nothing specific about BSS. So either I'm totally imagining it, or I read it somewhere else (maybe the earlier Gastwirt ELP box?). I look at a years' worth of ICEs after 1993 to check further, but nothing shows up except to note that the version of Pirates on 'Return of the Manticore' is an alternate take from the usual studio version.

I also found a later (April '96) CD watchdog complaining about the re-release of the catalog on Rhino (which began to appear in May '96). In response, there's statements from two people involved. Rhino A&R guy David MacLees says the new ones are the same product as the old ones, with a Rhino logo "We;re just reproducing what Victory did, because Bill Levenson did a very good job with those two to three years ago".

It then talks about BSS being the exception, because it will get new packaging, a bonus interview track, and according to Levenson "...we'll probably remaster it and try to inmprove the sound quality even more, if it's possible'." The Rhino version came out in June 1996.

That 'probably' is probably one source of the endless confusion about the various BSS releases, because AFAIK measurements suggest it didn't happen; the Rhino BSS is digitally identical to the Victory...isn't it?

 

So, has anyone listened to the SACD in stereo?

 

yes, i, too, am very curious to hear comments about the hi-res stereo BSS.

anyone?...

later, chris

 

I, sincerely, have never before seen a situation like the one on this thread where nobody has yet stepped up to comment on the stereo layer of a new SACD.

 

"Stepped up?"

I suspect that most people don't have it yet.

Many of us are dealing with backorders.

 

I picked up a copy on Saturday in HMV Bath UK for £16 - so good value for 3 discs.

The only positive thing about the packaging is the good print quality. The SACD not having any 'holder' - just being slipped in with the booklet is a disaster. They should have put the booklet behind the Keith Emerson photo (on the inside left spread). As for the typo's - there are numerous bad ones - the worst being the omission of 'Brain Salad Surgery' title on the spine of the box !!! There is even is a line space for it - and if you look at the new Pictures Disc Box you can see where it should be!

I will be writing to Sanctuary for a box replacement when they get the text sorted.

As to the discs themselves, not had too much time with them yet to compare, but disc 1 sounds great to me and they got the right vocal mix on Still you... not like on the previous remaster.

Disc 2 - sounds great too, I particulary like the K9 3rd impression backing track mix - a nice work in progress.

Dics 3 - Listened to the stereo layer on the SACD - I dont have a SACD player but my Naim CDX2 is more than up to the job. On first listen I think I actually prefer the Disc 1 version !!! Not sure what is going on with the SACD - perhaps its a mix-down from the 5.1 (?), I'm not sure, but I will need to do some track to track comparisons.



Geoff

 

You listened to the CD layer of the SACD. People want to know how the 2 channel stereo program of the SACD sounds.

 

Ah, excuse my ignorance. I did not realise that there was 3 different 'sound' versions on the SACD. But my comment still applies to what I heard.

 

No, the mix is the same. CD1 and CD-Layer from SACD are in perfect digital sync - but the SACD/CD is 0.11 dB lower in volume. The waveforms look almost the same. And to be honest, I don't hear a difference.

Martin

 

Is Barry's version your favorite?

I have low hopes for this SACD, no offense to the people that have already said they like it. I was going to pre-order it, but as soon as I saw Paschal Byrne did the remastering, I changed my mind.

 

0.11 dB difference is insignificant, so you wouldn't hear a difference on that basis. How did you measure the level of the SACD layer in the first place? 'Laserdrop'?

 

From my understanding of the post, he measured the cd vs the cd layer of the hybrid disk.

 

Is true that review claiming there's NO NEW material on the 3 CD set?

 

Yes, that is what I meant...
I've ripped CD1 and the CD-Layer of the SACD, put them on two tracks in Samplitude. To normalize CD1, it took 0.1 dB - and 0.21 dB to normalize the CD-Layer of the SACD. Normalized and phase inverted, they still didn't cancel out. But almost. There seem to be slightly different limiter settings in both masterings.

Martin

 

Barry's is my fave, yes.

In terms of a consistent approach to mastering the entire album, it's the best I've heard. The Victory is really very good, but a bit crispy in spots for me.

I had the same reaction when I heard that Paschal Byrne did this, but I decided not to cancel my order.

 

I should have BSS by Friday. Today I received the Pictures deluxe set.

Haven't listened to Disc 2 yet.

Disc 1:
- same old PAAE as before, sound quality unknown (I'm listening through smallish "utility" speakers);

- PAAE, live performance never heard before by me. Very ragged, tentative performances, tuning problems with KE's hammond, intonation problems for Greg. Sound quality not good. BUT... VERY interesting to hear a work in progress.

I'm satisfied. It's about what I expected.

Oh yes, the booklet: SURPRISE!! - - - - it's poorly done.

Even at first glance, several mistakes jumped out at me. Examples:
- "The Gnome, lyrics by Carl Palmer." Uh, what lyrics?

- Disc 1, track 13 (the second performance of PAE) time listed as 15:28; actual time is just over 30 minutes.


More as this story develops.

 

I'm disappointed to hear of the poor quality packaging and notes. I will no doubt get this though.

Pascal Byrne did a reasonable job of the John Martyn deluxe editions of 'One World' and 'Grace and Danger'. But they used the non-original US mix, with no sign of the UK version of the album. Why can't these guys get the basics right?

 

Ah, I see now that I misunderstood. My bad!