Elton John - "Captain Fantastic" Deluxe Edition Sept. 13

This was recorded 9 days before I was born!

I'm not into live music AND I'm sure the SACD is going to kick this one's butt since it sounds so good... so it looks like I'm buying this for the liner notes!

JEFF!

 

Fan-bloody-tastic!


...and thanks, Bruce....


The Wembley limit used to be 72,000 for concerts!!!!
The PR man obviously had a long lunch

 

Thx for the info Bruce......It's definitely worth picking up now and has been added to my list of must-buy releases!!!
TimW

 

There is a big problem with the bass on this SACD!!! All low frequencies are mixed to the LFE, which is against the common rules...
The LFE is an (optional) effect channel, nothing more. I still haven't decided which subwoofer to buy, and amongst the 60 surround discs I own, this is the only one which seems to be unplayable at the moment, because of absolutely no low-end.

Martin

 

Thanks, Martin.

I don't have a LFE, but have KEF 104aB's which have a reasonable bass response. My Arcam has a "mix sub to front speakers option" but this doesn't seem to help!?

 

Wonder if setting the player AND your receiver to SMALL speakers would help a bit? haven't tried it myself...

 

"Small speakers" would suggest the receiver that the low-end of the 5.0 channels have to be redirected to the subwoofer. The wrong way, because the 5.0 don't have any low-end in this case, and I don't have a subwoofer.
The receiver should send the subwoofer signal to the 5 speakers because I told him (and I told my DVD-Player, both from Pioneer) that I don't have any. But this works only with digital input, not with analogue (SACD and DVD-A).

Martin

 

Not sure what you are talking about. With surround music it is very common to mix the bass to the sub.

 

No, it isn't! Not completely, it should be used as an additional (sub-)bass. Believe me, all my 5.1 discs work without it, although it would be better to have one - except for Captain Fantastic. Philadelphia Freedom is a joke without...

Martin

 

hmmm.....as you can tell by my signature and title, I like surround music. I hear plenty of bass coming from my sub on most discs. Wish I could baffle you with science, but I just know what I hear.

 

Setting speakers to SMALL will do exactly as I stated. If there's NO BASS AT ALL on the F/C/S channels then yes, you're doomed if you don't have a sub. If that's the case with CAP'N FANTASTIC then we do have a crappily mixed surround disc. I'll try it on my sub-enabled system and report back. Sure wish this title was as well done as the other EJ SACD's.

 

I'll certainly be buying the deluxe edition on release day. Captain Fantastic is one of my all time favorite albums.

 

The whole album live...very cool. Looking forward to this.

 

Just a quick tangent into hardware territory.

Personally speaking I don't own one dvd-audio that doesn't use the LFE channel.

What may be causing confusion is that for example all my discs also use the front mains for some of the bass content. And on several discs the center and sometimes with my newest discs the surrounds also handle some full-range bass signals also. But the key word here is "some". Because depending on the title, turning off the sub can result in a very noticeably neutered performance. It's not that the LFE channel is just adding some extra bass, but rather it is actually carrying MOST of the music's low bass content, including instruments found in no other channel.

FYI: there are still very few receivers that include bass management for their 5.1 analog input. And there are still players that have no b.m. for their hi-res signals. Unfortunately their literature seldom seems to mention this very important detail. Or when they do, they sometimes use really strange crossover points: for example, the infamous 200Hz(!!) for dvd-audio signals on the Pioneer DV-563--talk about a boomy sounding subwoofer!; or the still rather high 120Hz found on some Yamahas.

For myself I just took the surround music mixers' advice and run my system full range in all channels for all the surround formats (my Pioneer DV-656 doesn't have hi-res b.m. anyway). As far as the phase cancellation effects some people worry about, I haven't seen where ALL six channels contain the same bass information (why would an engineer do that?) which IMO would be required for that effect to be really noticeable, so that shouldn't be a problem. My system sounds fine to me, with the additional benefit of no potential electrical phase problems to worry about when cramming all those additional bass signals into the LFE channel or possible xover circuit distortions to cause problems. Of course I also don't mind using large-ish bookshelfs for my satellites either (four with single 8" ported woofers; center has a 6.5" in a relatively large ported enclosure) so take this into account when thinking about going full-range yourself.

Now back to the original thread.............

 

My Yamaha DVD S1500 universal player has selectable crossover (for SACD anyway) at 60/80/120; along with my new NAD receiver, which has 40/60/80...200 settings, I've really been able to transform my living room system!

 

You can't mean the 2-ch. DSD layer?? I have not heard the original LP, but the stereo SACD layer is very dynamic. I love Captain Fantastic, and I think the mastering is exellent.

How much does re-masterings of classic album sell these days? From the late 80's to late 90's, re-masterings of back catalog was BIG buisness for the record companies. But today? How many editions of a single album and how many greatest hits collection do a single person want on Compact Disc?
Maybe Compact Disc as a medium is running "overtime"?

Yes, I can buy my favorite albums all over again, but only if I can hear more, and that means higher resolution!

 

Yes I mean the 2 channel DSD layer and the CD layer. Didn't you notice how up front the acoustic guitars are on the title track?

My original LP and 2 CD copies of this title BOTH preserve the dynamic range, but the SACD does not. Honky Chateau is the same way. I can't speak for the others, as I said I haven't even opened them.

Sadly, I like the EQ on the SACD best!

 

Yup, it's a no sale for me as well. Too many other things I don't have yet to spend my money on.

 

As I said, have not referenced it against any LP edition. But this surprised me, because on my system nearly each cut has a wide dynamic range. And belive me, is it one thing I am beware of, and HATE, it's compressed music and sound. But if you says so.. the LP must be extremly dynamic then.

I have "Honky Chateau" on CD Polydor remasters (early 90's I think) 829 249-2. The SACD is not compressed vs. the CD. In fact the SACD layer is more dynamic in the way SACD's usualy are.

 

I have captain fantastic and I thought it sounded pretty good.

 

Tim's correct - the original stereo mix was compressed on the SACD. I heard copies of his disc (a "laser drop", if you will) and it's very obvious. Captain Fantastic is a VERY dynamic album, or at least it was supposed to be. The dynamics are not exactly obliterated on the SACD, but they're noticeably reduced to my ears, which meant a no sale to me (thanks for saving me money, Tim! ). I preferred a copy of his old US vinyl that I got to hear, believe it or not.

That said, I will buy the DE, just to have the extras. If the sound ends up being good and uncompressed/limited, all the better, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

 

I was planning on giving this a skip if the second CD was just a live concert (it is). But it's not the generic contemporanious live concert I expected, but instead the entire album performed live in sequence...Wish I could just buy the second disc, but I guess I'll have to bite on this one after all.

Kwad

 

Can't comment because I haven't even played the stereo tracks on the SACD and I don't ever plan on doing that.

 

i bought it today at tower records/sunset - $19.99. sweet price point!
i've never owned this album so it's all new to me. everything on disc one is incredible so far--the performances, singing, songwriting and mastering. i wonder if this is a new remaster or another issue of the 1995 remasters? i'll listen to the second, live disc later on. the packaging looks like a faithful reproduction of the original lp, with miniature lyrics insert, poster, etc. very nicely done. that vartan guy, the art director at universal music enterprises, is peerless, IMO. just look at any GOLD series package versus any ESSENTIAL package for illustration.
anyone else get this today?

-eddie

 

Damn, I was at Tower today looking for some new tunes. I didn't realize this came out today. I didn't see it in the new releases section. I'll go back and get it. It's my fave EJ. I really want to hear the extras!