I can post a sample when I get back home tonight. Bear in mind, however, if that Japan first pressing has pre-emphasis, then my computer software doesn't cater for it. As I have discovered when I have posted clips with pre-emphasis in the past, they come out unnaturally harsh.
The Shout Factory edition of Trilogy is a loser, IMO. The Mofi crushes it, and I suspect the Victory (aka Rhino aka Castle) would beat it as well because it is not all that different from the MFSL ( a tad more crispy, but not this much more). Can I say for certain that the tapes don't sound more like what Pearce came up with? No, but it's too much top end boost for me. Kind of similar to the original Atlantic.
i don't know if this was mentioned already but as a side note,here's a site documenting elp and their related tours going back to the nice. http://www.covers-at-an-exhibition.de/Tourinfo/intro.html
Another ELP CD shoot-out day for me. Today, I compared the Victor Japan K2 mini-LP CD of 'Welcome Back...' with the Japan MMG/Atlantic (AMCY-215~6). I'm not sure whether or not the MMG/Atlantic is the first Japanese pressing, although I assume so, as I haven't seen an earlier pressing. I always knew the K2 was mastered loud, but in a direct comparison to the MMG/Atlantic, it is positively ear-bleeding! The MMG/Atlantic is mastered much lower and sounds very natural. I think I recall reading somewhere that the original US atlantic was noise-reduced. I didn't detect any evidence of NR on the MMG/Atlantic and, with the volume turned up, there was audible hiss. Earlier in this thread I had said that the K2 was my preferred version, as I hadn't heard anythng else that was better. Now I have: The MMG/Atlantic is now my preferred version of this album. Unfortunately, there is no mastering credit, so I have no idea who mastered it.
The MMG/Japanese Atlantic is the same as the original Victory issue in the US, which states that it was transferred with Sonic Solutions by Scott Hull at Masterdisk in NYC. This is how the idea came about that it is a bit no-noised. The K2 is louder and compressed, yes, but it seems to originate from the RCA/Manticore tapes. It has more much more hiss, but this is probably not all from compression and/or EQ. The old Best of ELP CD on WG Ariola from 1984 has two live tracks from WBMF, and these both have much more hiss than the JPN Atlantic. For the record, we basically have four digital masterings that I know of: 1. JPN Atlantic (AMCY-215~216)/Victory/Rhino/Castle - these are all from the same mastering. 2. Best of ELP - two tracks with unique mastering (much more hiss and lively sound, but perhaps top end boost?) issued by WG RCA/Ariola. 3. The K2/K2HD - very likely from the above (#2) source tapes, but with added compression. 4. Shout Factory The other possibility is that a Sonic Solutions workstation was used to transfer WBMF to digital at Masterdisk, but no-noise wasn't employed. I doubt this, given the time period and the fact that the specific mention of it was cited in the booklet. The presence of hiss doesn't mean too much. Yes, the JPN Atlantic (aka Victory aka Rhino aka Castle) has hiss, but the tapes could have been much hissier. In fact, the new SF issue seemed to be more hissy on my initial listens, but I haven't compared it directly with anything but the K2. Btw, I do not like the new Shout Factory version of this. And the K2 simply falls apart at louder volumes. So, even if there is some no-noise, the old Masterdisk mastering (which I am quite sure was first used for the JPN Atlantic) is probably the best we are going to get.
You may well be right, Jeff, but the more I listen to that K2, the more I hate it; at loud volumes it is absolutely intolerable. I don't collect "Best ofs", and I'm not going to try and hunt it down just for two tracks. Until I hear a better version, then, the MMG/Atlantic version is the one for me.
Yes, I agree now about the K2. I used to think it was the only version worthwhile on CD, but I have changed my mind.
Hi I've "rescued" these CDs from my brother's hands (they are poorly scratched ). They were released in Italy (S/T and Pictures at an Exhibition were made in Italy by POZZOLI and Tarkus and Trilogy were made in Austria by KOCH ) No sign of who mastered them anywhere but they show the Manticore logo. Catalogue numbers and (matrices info): S/T: CDOR 8333 (POZZOLI CDOR 8333 [A]) Tarkus: CDM 2 (Manu By Koch A30.517.000.002.8 @ 1) Pictures at an Exhibition: CDOR 8051 (POZZOLI CDOR 8051 ) Trilogy: CDM 3 (Manu By Koch A30.513.000.003.7 @ 1) I'll post some audio samples and waveforms
Does anyone have the Manticore CDs? I'd like to know if my CDs and the Manticores share the same mastering Thanks
Pitro, Yes, these are the Manticore (Italian pressings instead of German). I had the s/t (CDOR 8333) and it was fantastic, but the channels were reversed compared to other versions.
Thanks Jeff. Great, then the Original Atlantic is a good "Best Of" Many prefer Atlantic 32xd's pressings over their US Atlantic counterparts. At the very least if not better, they are equal. In any case I just found a 32XD "Best Of". My guess it is it'll be a nice disc. Did Barry master "Best of" ? Rick
I'm getting old. The mind boggles. Forgive me if the answer is either here or in any of the other many threads. I read so much about the ELP remasters and issues and reissues here in I don't know how many threads that my brain just sizzled out. I somehow lost track of it all. All I want to know is if this new remastering job (2007) of WBMF is good enough so I don't have to look for the Japanese K2 (which, if I recall correctly, had so far been the first choice for many ELP fans?). My system is pretty decent but not one that reveals every iota of remastering difference. So is the new Shout!Factory one I could live with?
Avoid K2's at all costs, Unless this disc an exception to the rule? Read post #130 in this thread http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=2841467&postcount=130 Jeff's ears come highly recommended. Rick
Like I said. Too much information, and all of that ... But I seem to recall people saying that WBMF was the only good K2? *sigh*
Happy New Year everyone! I spent my New Years day shooting out the Barry Diament-credited 32XD and the MFSL of 'Trilogy' against vinyl. I recently acquired UK white label test pressings of 'Trilogy' with A-1/B-1 matrices. For the first five tracks (up to and including 'The Sheriff') the cymbals on the 32XD are a tad crispy in comparison to both vinyl and the MFSL, although not excessively so, in my opinion. As a consequence, the MFSL is easier on the ears than the 32XD up until this point, although it does have more bottom end than the vinyl. For the remaining four tracks, however, the MFSL takes a turn for the worse. All tracks from 'Hoedown' onwards appear to have had the bass boosted, to the point where it is absolutely overloaded in comparison to the vinyl. In contrast, the 32XD sounds very similar to the vinyl. I have now compared most, if not all, versions of the first six ELP albums on CD (other than the recent Shout Factory remasters which, judging by some of the comments on the forum, I won't be bothering with!). Here are my preferences: 'S/T' - Japan 32XD pressing (I found this one to be a tad more relaxed than the Manticore) 'Tarkus' - Manticore (This one blows away the MFSL, IMO) 'Pictures At An Exhibition' - Atlantic/32XD/Target (They are all identical) 'Trilogy' - Japan 32XD (This one carries the catalogue number 19123-2 in parentheses, so I assume that it is identical to the made in Japan for US Atlantic) 'Brain Salad Surgery' - Japan 32XD/US Atlantic (Both credited to Barry Diament and both identical, I believe) 'Welcome Back, My Friends...' - Japan Atlantic.
Hello Owais, I am not a huge ELP fan, but I really do like their first album a lot. I own three different versions of this, the German Manticore CD, the German Victory remastered CD from 1993 and the original US Atlantic CD, which lists Barry Diament as the mastering engineer. I always assumed that the 1st Japanese pressing uses the same mastering and has just some minor pressing differences. Maybe this assumption is not correct, who knows? Anyhow, would it be possible for you to post a short clip of the S/T album 32XD CD (maybe Lucky Man)? I would love to hear this. To know the peak levels of the 32XD would also be nice, since this would indicate whether it is a different mastering than the original US Atlantic CD. The original US Atlantic sounds too bright for my liking, and so far I prefer the Manticore CD which sounds very nice in my opinion. Happy New Year!
Owais, Barrry did not master Trilogy. I sent him a CDR of the original Atlantic (which yes, is the same as the 32XD you sent me) and he is confident that it is not his work and the credits are incorrect. He felt, as I do, that this mastering is not very good. I do agree that it gets a bit better, but in some more comparisons again recently with a Piros-cut Cotillion LP, I found the Mofi to be smiley-faced. The top end was boosted as well as the low end in comparison. The LP also sounds a bit EQd to my ears, but has much better midrange. The Manticore CD is probably the most natural sounding version of this one, but I cannot figure out why it has so much more hiss than the other versions, yet sounds so warm and flat in comparison to other versions?
