Dumb Question about Mono Vinyl Playback

Yes guys the SIGNAL should cancel when you hit perfect alignment (azimuth and anti-skating) assuming as Harold said the are no manufacturing defects, however, the noise will not because it is random, however, the noise should be at least 30 dB below the signal level and if the record is clean even lower than that.

 

I have to agree. And forgive me, for I walked into this thread without reading all the prior entries, so I do apologize if I'm repeating what has already been said.

Mono buttons work just fine, but a mono cart really is the way to go if it is easy enough for one to change cartridges. My Rotel pre-amp has a mono switch of which I've taken to using more lately, since it is a pain to change carts on my Rega Planet.

However, when playing monaural vinyl on my Sony PS-4300, (and I am a jazz/classic pop lover, so I do have a lot of mono albums from the early 50s), I use my conical, monaural Grado. The presence is breathtaking. Mono albums sound so much quieter and track much better with a conical stylus.

All it took after first purchasing the mono cart was one listen of Peggy Lee's "Jump For Joy" LP from 1957 (only available in mono) or the mono pressing of Dean Martin's 1961 "This Time I'm Swingin'" album to get me hooked. Then again, Capitol should be given some of the credit because they made fabulous mono pressings in those days.

 

Forgive me if I'm being dense...

I just got a nice vintage Thorens, and I want to set it up for sweet mono playback. I'm going to get a mono cartridge, and I think the easiest way to swap out the cartridges is to get another wand so I can leave the respective stereo and mono cartridges in the wand without rewiring them. First, does this seem like a reasonable idea? Second, this won't eliminate the need to sum the signal, correct? I'm still in that double-Y cable bind that no one can get out of, right?

One more question: Should I hold off on playing un-played mono lp's until I have the mono cartridge?

I sure wish I had a mono switch on my amp. Sigh.

Thanks for putting up with more mono questions and for any help.

 

Using a stereo cartridge won't hurt your mono records. Most people play them that way because very few have mono cartridges. There is no problem with that. On the other point, swappable wands is a great idea, but you could also use a single tonearm with detachable headshells. All you would need to swap then would be the headshell/cartridge combo. Probably cheaper than the whole wand, although you will have to be guided by what kind of arm you have. My current tonearm has a removable wand rather than a headshell. It actually has no headshell at all and I have to mount the cartridge directly onto the wand with special hardware pieces in a clamping-type arrangement. This reduces the effective mass of the tonearm, which is an advantage for my particular cartridge.

 

Harold, I checked your profile, you have a wonderful system. I am in the same boat as you with my VPI TNT-HR. If I wanted two cartridges ready to play I need another complete wand.

Mike, I am surprised your vintage Thorens would need a wand change for cartridge change, all of the vintage Thorens that I know of (I had a 1972 Thorens until 5 years ago) have removable headshells. What model do you have?

 

I have a Thorens 126 mk II. I'm kinda new to the world of good turntables, and the guy who installed the cartridge told me a new wand was the way to go. It looks like you'd have to remove the four wires each time to just remove the cartridge, while the wand just plugs right in (even I was able to plug the wand in!).

Just to re-ask the question--even if I change wands, there's no getting around the double-Y cable, right?

Thanks again everyone!

 

If I understand your question correctly, if you're using a mono cart, you don't need the double-Y cable.

 

Well, I'll be using the mono cart very shortly, so that's the best news I've heard in ages!

Thanks again!

 

Mike, You already have an answer to your double "Y" question, you do NOT need one if you have a mono cartdidge. You should find this link very useful.

http://www.angelfire.com/retro/clockz/126mk3/TD126mk3.html

You have a typical Thorens arm and all you need to do is get an extra headshell for you mono cartridge. The guys on this link might be able to help you. Good luck, cool TT.

 

For those of you who are unfamiliar with the stock Thorens arms of this era, the headshell is not removable, but the entire tonearm wand is. The connector is back towards the pivot and is very similar to a regular headshell connector.

Rinso, does the cartridge end of your wand look look like this?

That's the TP-62.

If it looks similar to this,

, then it's the TP-63 (I believe this is a repro -- -the originals have the Thorens logo and don't have the slots for the cartridge screws).

The 62 and the 63 are interchangeable, but the weight is quite different as is the overhang. So it's best to get a duplicate of your particular wand.

They can be found through eBay on occasion, sometimes attached to a whole tonearm (if someone yanked the stoc one to replace it with something else).

If you get a mono cart, you do NOT need Y cables. The cart takes care of all that for you.

Most likely, you need the TP-62 if you have the MkII version of the 126. But if it turns out you need the 63, I have a spare I'd be willing to sell. PM me if interested.

Hope this helps.

 

Thanks, Tony. Those are great pics. I think I'll get the separate wand, as it seems easier to change than the headshell. If I'm wrong, it shows my ignorance and proves that I shouldn't be messing around with the headshell.

My big worry was having to somehow get behind the entire system to swap cables. If I can avoid that, I'm happy.

 

You can not change the headshells on those -- you can only change the wands.

If you get a separate wand with a mono cart, that's all you will have to swap. You may, however, need to adjust your vertical tracking force and your anti-skate setting when you swap wands. Also be aware that cartridges with different heights (measured from stylus tip to the top of the cart body) will have different vertical tracking angles. Sometimes with swappable wands (or headshells for that matter), you have to compromise to get the optimal sound from each cartridge.

On the bright side, there is plenty of reference information out there about tonearm setup and you will become pretty good at by necessity if you go down this road.

 

bangs, Sorry for being such a dummy, I missed thre fact that in my link the swaped out the standard arm for an SME 3009.

 

If you look at my profile, I have one of each (sorta) -- a 125MkII with an SME 3009 and a 126 MkII with the stock arm.

I may not know much about much, but I do know something about these TTs.

 

OUTSTANDING!!!

 

While I have three Technics SL1200 MkII turntables in the house with decent stereo cartridges with two in audio systems and one for a spare, I play mono LPs and singles on a 1959 turntable with a GE RPX "Triple Play" cartridge in the tone arm. On another system, I have a 1956 turntable with a GE VRII in the head shell (it replaced an RPX that died). Both of these are TRUE mono cartridges with only two contacts on the rear. I have to say that mono records never sounded so good! The 1 mil conical styli track the discs exactly as they were meant to be played, and since the cartridges are only sensitive to lateral modulation, they don't pick up surface noise at the bottoms of the record grooves. Because they're calibrated at the correct VTFs for each cartridge, they don't chew styrene singles, either. I like the RPX better than the later VRII, as I believe it has a warmer sound. Just don't go buying these cartridges because I use them. The cartridges require a hole in the top of the head shells for a post that protrudes through the top of the shell to switch the stylus tip from LP to 78. These GEs play 78s very well, but you need a preamp with a switch that will remove the RIAA compensation for LPs from the circuit to play 78s correctly. Sometimes, it just pays to use vintage equipment on vintage records!

 

Providing that the discs are in very good condition. I agree that a 1mil conical sounds better than say a .07mil conical on clean mono discs but many older mono discs are not NM. The 1mil is much more sensitive to surface damage. I have a number of mono discs that skip with the 1mil conical but play just fine with the .07mil conical because the latter rides lower in the grooves.

 

I've read through this, and am wondering, now that a few years have passed since this thread was rabidly active, is it the consensus that the double-Y cable solution is just about as good as a dedicated mono cartridge? I was thisclose to buying one for the upcoming Beatles set; but now I am thinking I might swing by RadioShack instead.

 

Yes, if you're using a stereo turntable setup. The mono circuit essentially adds the left and right channel together, then cuts the output in half. Some of the surface noise is out of phase between the left and right channels, so when they are summed together they will be cancelled out. So using the MONO switch reduces the noise.

 

My Thorens TD-150 with a SME 3009 Improved with a non removable headshell, a Shure V15 V ( this eliminates the cart switching for me). All fed through my B&K Pro 10 preamp, I press the mono switch on the preamp and should get exactly the same sound from both channels. Is this correct? If I play a Stereo recording with the mono switch engaged I get one signal from one speaker only. My assumption is all is correct.

Any thoughts?

SB

 

If you play a stereo recording with the mono switch engaged you will get the same sound from both speakers, with everything left, right and centre in the stereo recording merged together. Exactly, how it sounds will depend upon how the original stereo was mixed.

The mono switch normally merges the left and right channel signals together and then sends the same signal to both stereo channels of the power amplifier and thence to both speakers.

The only way to get sound out of a single speaker is to either swing the balance over to that side or to disconnect the other speaker (not recommended).

 

Thanks I thought I was doing something wrong.

 

I would just like one person to post a picture of a U shaped mono groove. Many have claimed this "fact" but I have never seen proof.

It doesn't make any sense. Where would the stylus tip rest?

I have looked at mono grooves on my old 78s and they are V shaped.

Now, if you mean the groove has a more rounded bottom than a "point", I guess that could be but it still isn't U shaped.

Doug

 

I came across this thread this morning doing a search on digitizing mono recordings. I've learned a lot (thanks). From the comments on this particular question am I correct in understanding that when digitizing a mono LP, if the LP has been summed - in my case with a mono switch on the mixer - it makes no difference if the wave file is saved in stereo format or mono for playback?