DualDisc to be launched across the US in October 2004 or January 2005.

Michael,

I must remind you as I have reminded others in the past, please do not start another SACD vs DVD-A debate.

DualDisc can actually be a combo disc of varying formats. In the test marketing, we saw CD/DVD-A, CD/DVD-V and CD/DVD Surround audio. Who's to say that there could not be an SACD/DVD-V DualDisc?

Let's stay on topic!

:-jon
Hi-Rez Lovin' Gort (All Formats)

 

Jon,

I see nothing in my statement that belittles any format, unlike many previous posts in this thread.

 

That's what I've always thought ... where you save probably is not in making the disc, but the packaging since the CD+DVD can be more expensive (i.e. Sheryl Crow, Red Hot Chili Peppers).

What I hate most is that the CD layer is a bit different, so your max CD time is a bit lower.

It will be interesting to see what they do. If they do what they have done to SACD (i.e. introduce hybrids, but then release DSD remasters a la the Stones or Dylan and make the hybrids either OOP or hard to find), as well as continue to market normal redbooks of the same title, this format has NO chance.

 

Since people tend to have entirely different listening/viewing habits with those two mediums (CD, DVD) I view the Swiss Army Knife approach of DualDiscs as being simply too impractical to succeed in the market place.

You want to listen to the CD in your car and watch the DVD in your home, so why create a new format that you constantly have to drag back and forth between two places, adding the paranoia of possible damaging or losing both?

I can definitely see CD/DVD combo packs to be catching on with consumers (they've been in Asia for years), but I'm sceptical about the general public willing to deal with a hybrid format that places the burden on them...
-wolf

 

I've certainly wondered that too. I'm hoping that some of the ones I missed during the test market will be reissued (e.g., Back in Black). However, the selfish side of me hopes that Sony does not reissue Dave Brubeck Time Out. I took a chance and bought a sealed copy at a high price a few months ago hoping that it would be a collector's item someday (it's still sealed). I'd hate to see it at every Best Buy come fall for $13.99.

 

By the way, if we do see the DualDisc format on a national level, we could very well have spindle cracks on our hands. I have a copy of Time Out with a small spindle crack on the CD side. I've only played the disc twice.

 

I always was happy too!

Sean

 

You've probably heard of the survey about music that was done in the UK. It was published by High Fidelity Review, here: http://www.highfidelityreview.com/news/news.asp?newsnumber=17568480

If one of the main intentions behind the DualDisc is to offer surround music alongside redbook CD, then I agree with Michael. I also believe that this product could be very appealing to those under 30.

After all, one of the conclusions of the UK survey is that, and I quote: "Listening to music in ‘surround sound’ is a much higher preference among those aged 18-24 (66%) than those aged 45-54 (26%) – a recent Hi-Fi Choice column suggested that those who didn’t like multi-channel music were mostly tired old men, afraid to try something new… and that now appears to be statistically accurate, at least according to this poll!"

Maybe what we are talking about is not truly an audiophile product, but one that can surely and swiftly (provided they put out DualDiscs of interesting artists for that age group) promote MC music and, hopefully, also DVD-Audio and/or SACD.

 

I think we are one the same page Sckott but my guess is that the labels are doing DualDisc to enhance the product with a video feature, not as any commitment to hirez.

The proof will be to see how many discs actually have 24/96 or higher resolution...and how many albums actually get released.

At this point for the format to overtake the MP3 world there needs to be a big coordinated launch and multi-retailer support. Given the music biz track record I remain in "show me" mode.

 

Actually, since we're (hopefully) at the tail end of a 15 to 20 year period where most pop/rock albums were recorded in 48khz digital, I will expect a fair amount of new material and contemporary reissues that aren't at 24/96.

The format and/or marketing cannot be blamed for less-than-high resolution releases when the original recording was not in analog or high-res digital.

I will certainly be disappointed if classic analog albums from the 60s and 70s are presented in low-res on DualDisc (though based on the market test, I suspect that Sony will do just that).

 

48K isn't hirez so that's a problem but I suspect there are more major label 96k recordings than people realize.

Perhaps they can use an upsampling algorithm but I'm on the fence as to if that helps...at least the specialty labels like AIX, Chesky and others have plenty of 96K in the can.

Maybe the other proof of market support will be if more new recordings are done in 96k or higher...

 

http://www.highfidelityreview.com/news/news.asp?newsnumber=12507493


Major Labels Unveil DualDisc, Combining CD and DVD Content on One Disc

DualDisc was officially launched today by a consortium of record labels including EMI Music, Sony BMG Music Entertainment, Universal Music Group, Warner Music Group and 5.1 Entertainment Group/Silverline Records.

DualDisc is a two-sided disc made up of a CD on one side and a DVD on the other. In addition to a full album on the CD side, the DVD side provides the full album in enhanced sound (such as surround sound and/or DVD-Audio or LPCM stereo), and also includes a wide range of special features such as music videos, interviews, photo galleries, web links, concert footage and lyrics.

“DualDisc represents a dramatic expansion of the music entertainment experience,” commented Andrew Lack, CEO, Sony BMG Music Entertainment. "By combining video, surround sound and web connectivity in a single disc, we are presenting our artists with a broader palette to express their creative vision, while at the same time giving consumers what they told us they want – greater value driven by unique content that brings them closer to the artist. We’re confident that this ground-breaking new initiative will help to re-energize traditional music retail.”

“We are delighted to be offering the first in a series of DualDisc titles,” stated Doug Morris, Chairman and CEO of Universal Music Group. “By combining music, video, interactivity and portability in a single disc, DualDisc will add an exciting new dimension to the consumer’s musical experience.”

“DualDisc is an exciting new product that’s limited only by the artist’s imagination. We’re confident that the ubiquity of CDs combined with the multimedia experience of DVDs on a single disc provides consumers an entirely new level of musical enjoyment,” said Edgar Bronfman, Jr., Chairman and CEO, Warner Music Group.

Although DualDisc creates a new music experience, it does not require new equipment. DualDisc is compatible with nearly any device that can currently play a CD or a DVD-whether a home stereo system, portable disc player, car stereo, game console or PC.

DualDisc has already received an impressive response from consumers in test markets conducted earlier this year. Those who purchased the DualDisc said it is a compelling new product which met or exceeded their expectations. In addition, 90 percent of consumers said they would recommend DualDisc to a friend and 82 percent said they are satisfied or extremely satisfied with DualDisc.

“DualDisc is a compelling new product; a proposition that we believe will help drive sales,” said Don Van Cleave, President of the Coalition of Independent Music Stores.

Artists are also singing the praises of DualDisc because it allows them to create in exciting new ways. Five For Fighting Lead Singer John Ondrasik said, “For those who are interested in the thoughts behind the music and its making, the DualDisc is a unique window into ‘The Battle For Everything’ and allows me to be able to present my album musically and visually, all on one disc.” Five for Fighting’s ‘The Battle for Everything’, currently available on CD, will be one of the albums released on DualDisc.

“Dual Disc opens a new, exciting creative dimension for artists to express themselves and connect with fans. It’s an entertainment-packed product and is a big step in our effort to give fans music whenever, however and wherever they want it”, said David Munns, Chairman and CEO EMI Music North America.

DualDiscs will be available beginning in October 2004. All of the participating record labels plan to offer an increasing number of DualDisc products, including a range of frontline and catalog releases. The labels made today’s announcement to retailers at the annual convention for the National Association of Recording Merchandisers (NARM) taking place in San Diego.

“Our labels, artists and their management are extremely excited about the introduction of DualDisc. The video component allows us to include unique, intimate making-of and behind-the-scenes video footage, expanding the relationships between fans and artists,” commented Don Ienner, President, Sony Music U.S. “This is a great move for artists, fans and retailers alike, and we look forward to rolling out new and innovative releases that take full advantage of DualDisc’s expanded capabilities.”

“DualDisc is an exciting product for independent labels. It provides a window into new and up and coming artists for whom getting close to their fans is a critical success factor. DualDisc also provides a means to invigorate classic titles with fresh and compelling content,” said John Trickett, Chairman and CEO, 5.1 Entertainment Group/Silverline Records

“DualDisc is an exciting new product and may be the perfect solution for the music business as we seek to add value to our product and become more competitive with the other segments of home entertainment,” said Randy Miller, Executive Vice President, Virgin Records America, Inc.



*High Fidelity Review
**DVD-Audio News Story:



Silverline Records Set To Release 50 DualDiscs This Year

Silverline Records, a division of the 5.1 Entertainment Group, is set to release 50 DualDisc titles beginning on November 2nd, 2004. In an effort to bring expanded value to music fans, Silverline Records is participating with all of the major record labels in the launch of DualDisc, a two-sided disc made up of a CD on one side and a DVD on the other. In addition to the album on the CD side, the DVD side provides the full album in DVD-Audio 5.1 surround sound, and also includes a wide range of special features such as music videos, interviews, photo galleries, web links, concert footage and lyrics.

Robert Cray, Blondie, Widespread Panic, Queensryche, Blues Traveler and The Mavericks will be among the first DualDisc titles.

DualDisc plays on existing CD and DVD hardware devices such as car stereos, PCs, DVD players, game consoles and CD players, eliminating the need to purchase new hardware. In addition, it brings value back to the physical music product by offering music fans the opportunity to make a greater connection with their favorite artist.

“DualDisc is an exciting product for independent labels. It provides a window into new and up and coming artists for whom getting close to their fans is a critical success factor. DualDisc also provides a means to invigorate classic titles with fresh and compelling content,” said John Trickett, Chairman and CEO, 5.1 Entertainment Group/Silverline Records.



http://www.highfidelityreview.com/news/news.asp?newsnumber=12287026

Silverline will release the following DualDisc titles on November 2, 2004:

Blondie – ‘The Curse Of Blondie’
Josh One – ‘Narrow Path’
The Hiss – ‘Panic Movement’
Blues Traveler – ‘Truth Be Told’
Robert Cray – ‘Time Will Tell’
The Mavericks – ‘The Mavericks’
Queensryche – ‘Tribe’
Joey Ramone- ‘Don’t Worry About Me’
Curtis Mayfield – ‘Live At Ronnie Scott’s’
Taj Mahal - ‘Live At Ronnie Scott’s’
Roy Ayers – ‘Live At Ronnie Scott’s’
Lynyrd Skynyrd – ‘Then and Now’
Gary Moore – ‘Back To The Blues’
Jane Monheit – ‘Come Dream With Me’
Jane Monheit – ‘Never Never Land’
Geoff Tate – ‘Geoff Tate’
Living Colour – ‘Collideoscope’
Styx – ‘Cyclorama’
Widespread Panic – ‘Don’t Tell The Band’
Widespread Panic – ‘Ball’
London Symphony – ‘Handel’s Messiah’
Cool Yule Allstars – ‘Big Band Christmas’
London Symphony – ‘Classic Christmas’
Utah Symphony Orchestra – ‘The Nutcracker’
Tipper – ‘Surrounded’

Silverline will follow up this initial release with an additional 25 titles on November 16th including albums from Todd Rundgren, Bob Marley and The Wailers, Ministry, Dar Williams, Big Head Todd and the Monsters, Brides Of Destruction, The Fixx, The Pogues, Gary Numan, Eddie Money and others.

 

where are these all being pressed?

 

Great. The crappy Silverline DVD-As that sit in Best Buys all around the country unsold will now be available on DualDisc!

I have to give Silverline credit for their determination, and yes, there are some good releases, but many are just plain "Stunning" NOT.

 

Not sure about this round, but the last group of DualDiscs were made by CinRam (formerly WAMO) except for the Sony DDs which were made by Sony DADC in Austria.

That helps explain why the Sony DDs appear a bit different.

 

Does anyone remember DVD-18? The dual-sided, dual layer DVDs. Most famously released as Terminator 2: Ultimate Edition. They later switched it to two, dual-layer DVDs because consumers were getting confused with the small type in the spindle and appreciated the "added value" of having two discs.

Hmmmm...

 

Double-sided DVD is alive and well. In the last month alone, I've encountered double-sided discs in the first Northern Exposure box set, and several MGM films (typically DVD-14).

 

Oh, great. Off-titles from Silverline.

I thought this was funny from the highfidelityreview.com article:

Andrew Lack?

 

From www.avrev.com:

http://www.avrev.com/news/0804/26.dualdisc.html

 

What I fear most is that until they learn to make a DUAL DISC with a DVD-9 layer we won't have Hi-Rez stereo mixes as they'll probably use the limited space for Multi-channel mixes, DD and a Rom accessible .aac files and if they do have only a stereo layer we may not get 24/192? That makes me kinda unenthusiastic! Now when they are able to make them with DVD- 9 discs then i'll be fully in support of it!! I just hate to see DVD-A become a compromised technology.

 

I have the same concern...I think the industry will be naturally biased toward video features and hirez will take a back seat. I hope to be proven wrong as that would mean more hirez titles.

It also seems better strategy for the labels to include hirez and get some audiophiles on board who, if anything, fall into the early adopter category. The worst thing tohappen would be to release the discs, have no hirez, and have inventory languish on the shelves. That would turn the retailers off immediately.

 

Look at Fagen's 'Nightfly' disc for a single-layer DVD-5 that has high-res stereo and high-res surround and a video.

My biggest concern about DualDisc is Sony Corporate, not the current space limitation.

But why not just wait and see until spreading FUD? Why so much negativity about a format that has not been officially released yet, and which did indeed have high-res on many of the pilot discs (curse you Sony).

 

That's a great disc and I love it. If this is a good template for DualDisc then I'm going to be a happy camper.

I don't view it as spreading fear and uncertainty...I view it as being healthily skeptical. Given the past practices of the music industry and the lack of support for both SACD and DVDA in many places, I think we are entitled to that.

 

My biggest fear is that Sony will focus on DualDisc and neglect SACD (even further).

By the way, notice in the avrev.com article I cited above that it is expected that test-market titles, including Dave Brubeck Time Out, will be included in the national launch. Perhaps this is the time for me to unload the sealed test-market copy.

 

A possibility but I think rather Sony is still doing their "barbell" strategy of catering to the high end with DSD products and the low end with DualDisc video and compression features.