Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms SACD stereo vs. West German Vertigo

I thought I'd revive this thread and post a summary of the masterings and channel orientations for the discs I have. Here we go.


Version 1

* Japanese Daio Kosan, Matsushita, and Sanyo pressings, Warner Bros. catalog number 9 25264-2

Peak levels:
100.0
100.0
50.3
40.8
23.1
75.6
77.8
100.0
63.0

High-hat orientation in "So Far Away": left


Version 2

* West German Polygram pressing, "02" matrix code, Warner Bros. catalog number 9 25264-2

Peak levels:
100.0
100.0
56.3
41.6
22.7
72.6
69.1
89.6
56.5

High-hat orientation in "So Far Away": right


Version 3

* West German Polygram pressing, "07" matrix code, Warner Bros. catalog number 9 25264-2

Peak levels:
100.0
100.0
50.3
97.4
23.1
75.6
77.8
100.0
63.0

High-hat orientation in "So Far Away": left


Version 4

* West German Polygram pressing, "11" matrix code, Vertigo catalog number 824 499-2
* U.S. PDO (?) pressing, "14" matrix code, Warner Bros. catalog number 9 25264-2
* French PDO pressing, "19" matrix code, Vertigo catalog number 824 499-2

Peak levels:
79.4
79.4
44.7
33.0
18.0
57.6
54.9
71.1
44.9

High-hat orientation in "So Far Away": left

 

Keith- nice work!

I have one on Warner mfd for RCA made in Japan with matrix:

D1-14734 1A1 67 X

It is dot matrix and the 1A1 67 X part is opposite the other part of the code. I thought it was Denon??

Also, I have one on Vertigo with 'Made in USA PDO' stamped in the aluminum hub with matrix ending in '03@'.

I don't know how to use EAC, but I'm guessing these two are covered in your post. No?

 

Yes, "Brothers in Arm" was a true DDD compact disc -- one of the firsts to market itself as such to critical acclaim. I wonder how that 44.1/16 digital recording is up-sampled for these new hi-res releases?

 

Wasn't it mixed in analog?

 

I listened last evening with high-end Marantz sacd player to the Remaster and to the SACD (layer) with headphones. To my dutch ears the remaster doesn't hold a candle to SACD. The latter sounds much smoother with a lot of "body". For sure not a reference album but i like it.

 

The Warner disc is a Denon pressing made for the BMG music club. Early BMG issues are found with the RCA reference, as RCA was part of BMG.

It's strange to see a Vertigo copy pressed in the U.S. since the Vertigo issue was a European release. Interesting.

 

I don't care for the SACD, as I find it to be bright and harsh. The first time I played it, I found myself dialing the volume down significantly. My favorite version is the DVD-Audio portion of the DualDisc.

 

Yeah, I wondered about that also. I'm assuming that it was made in the US for the European market. Must have been a capacity thing and US PDO was able to fill the order.

As far as sound quality of BIA, I have not found a version that I'm totally satisfied with. I'll have to try the DVD-A once I get a CD player.

 

Speaking of which, Keith, any comments on the possibility that the 07 # pressing came from an emphasized master? You're in a way better position than I am to compare it to other versions.

 

You obviously meant a DVD-Audio player. I just wanted to check with you before you shell out cash for a CD player.

I haven't listened critically to all these discs. Truthfully, I picked up most of them as collector variations years ago not knowing about the different masterings and channel orientations. Now that I have sorted out which masterings and channel orientations I have, I will need to give them a listen. That should nice and tiresome.

As I recall, some folks have given the nod to the 02 West German pressing, but I don't know which versions folks compared it to. Low-number West German pressings (e.g., 01, 02) are cited by some as being superior to higher-number West German pressings with the same mastering, so I am not sure of the vantage point people were speaking from with the 02 Brothers in Arms disc.

 

Yup, I don't use any CD player now. My Transporter is pretty sick for redbook or hi-res flac. I need a Blu Ray, so I might as well get that Oppo and then I can do SACD, DVD-A, the kitchen sink, etc.....

 

Hi Keith,

What is your opinion regarding the sound quality/mastering of the West German Polygram pressing, "11" matrix code, Vertigo catalog number 824 499-2 compared to the Japanese Daio Kosan, Matsushita, and Sanyo pressings, Warner Bros. catalog number 9 25264-2?
I have the opportunity to pick up copy of this and am wondering if it is worth it from the sound quality point of view!?

Thanks,

David

 

David, unfortunately, I haven't begun to sort this out. I've had these discs for years and had been unaware of the mastering differences until recently. So I just grabbed any old disc to listen to in the past. None of them have sounded bad to me over the years.

Sorry I can't help you. On the plus side, many of these discs are easy to find, so you should be able to try them out on the cheap. Perhaps an exception is the West German 02 disc. I don't see that one very often.

 

Thanks Keith.
I will grab the West German pressing and compare it to the Matsushita, Japan cd I have...it will be interesting to see if there is a substantial difference, particularly with the different peak levels between the two!?

 

Denon CD Matrix

I worked for Denon (US Optical Disc replicating plant) from 1987 to 1996. The matrix indicated below is, indeed, a BMG Club number. However, the 1A1 67 X is the matrix system used by Denon's parent company, Nippon Columbia in Japan. Occasionally, Nippon Columbia shipped metal masters to Denon in the USA (especially the beginning year in 1987). However, after 1988, Denon almost always cut their own glass plates and plated their own masters.

The 1A1 indicates the glass master was cut at Nippon Columbia in Japan and the metal father was plated in Japan. However, replication may have occurred at NC or Denon (USA).

 

Sorry if I missed it scanning through this thread, but did anyone mention the SHM-CD? Is that one "squashed," or is it a decent contender?

 

I'm also wondering about the SHM CD, and which mastering this is derived from.

 

Can someone please clarify for me which group below is the original Ludwig mastering and which is/are the Dent? I have a BMG CD matching Group A and booklet says mastered by Dent and a CD which matches Group D and says Ludwig. But some of the comments leave me to believe the Ludwig mastering is Group B and booklets don’t always match up with the actual disc/mastering.

Group A
100.0/100.0/ 50.3/ 40.8/ 23.1/ 75.6/ 77.8/100.0/ 63.0

Group B
100.0/100.0/ 56.3/ 41.6/ 22.7/ 72.6/ 69.1/ 89.6/ 56.5

Group D
79.4/ 79.4/ 44.7/ 33.0/ 18.0/ 57.6/ 54.9/ 71.1/ 44.9

 

Now I'm wondering which of these masterings my brazilian CD has.

 

Bump for the weekend crowd. Does anyone know the answer to my question?

Thanks in advance.

 

^ I thought it's group D (that is the Canadian Vertigo CD I have)

 

I've always believed the BL mastering was the one with the Group D EAC results!

 

Thanks guys!

 

For sure: Group A is Dent, Group D is Ludwig.. never heard Group B

 

Your wish come true
Inner 02\824499-2

Track1 - 99.1%
Track2 - 99.0%
Track3 - 55.9%
Track4 - 41.2%
Track5 - 22.5%
Track6 - 69.6%
Track7 - 66.3%
Track8 - 88.8%
Track9 - 54.2%


I think there is another master
Me confused!