Try this... take one of the London/Threshold Moody CD's from your above list and turn it up to a comfortably loud volume and choose your favorite track to compare. Now, without touching your volume control, throw in the MFSL equivalent. Still sound good to you? PS. the Japanese 1st pressing is much better than the MFSL FWIW. It's a Toshiba/EMI black triangle pressing catalog #CP32-5078.
I don't think Dave has to defend his choice of non-preferred titles. If you do not agree with a title he choose to be on his list, post why and which pressing you prefer. That way we get a great thread.
Come on guys, unless I'm missing out on some kind of inside joke, this thread is getting nasty and personal. Let's all step back, take a few deep breaths, pop open our favorite tasty beverages, and play nice . . .
The only way to do a proper comparison between two CDs of the same program is to LEVEL-MATCH them. Doing this A/B test "without touching your volume control" invalidates the test from the start. Ask any engineer, Dave, whether you believe in our abilities to listen critically or not. I'll give you an example of why your "set and forget the volume control" test won't work. Say you take your old 1980s CD of "Long Distance Voyager" or whatever title you choose. Back then, it wasn't uncommon for a mastering engineer to print to digital at a much lower level than was possible. These CDs sometimes peaked out FOUR dB or MORE away from digital zero. Why? I don't know. So there you are at home with your volume control turned up to compensate...now you take your MoFi or your new-major-label-reissue CD of the same program...I guarantee you...IF ALL THEY DID WAS MAKE THE CD THE ALLOWABLE FOUR dB LOUDER, YOU'D THINK THEY COMPRESSED IT, CHANGED IT, RUINED IT. GUARANTEED. When the truth is: It's just louder because it can be.
I've compared discs with Dave at his place on his system (you hear everything) and we always adjust for volume differences. Why did he suggest keeping the volume the same for the particular title mentioned above? I don't know, but I'm sure if you do the test you will notice some kind of a difference. Whoever takes the test, please post your findings. Rob, you objections have been noted by all of us.
That is true. But if Dave is going to claim that he can tell by listening to a cd if the treble was on the source or applied during mastering then it is fair to ask him to defend this claim. So far he hasn't been able to do it. I would say this calls his "expertise" into question.
I am not here to voice my objections to Dave's opinion of MFSL products. I am trying to help edcuate some of you regarding audio, in general. Notice, I have not said anything about MoFi in any of my posts in this thread. Each and every time I've posted, it's either been an attempt to see how Dave has come to his conclusions or to offer FACTS regarding how audio works...high-frequency abilities of analog tape, digital levels, et al. Seeing as this thread has run a circle through the course of a whole day and gotten nowhere, I'll let Dave have his thread in peace and hope that some of you take it with a grain of salt.
Well then Rob why do Steve's masterings, even though mastered louder, hold up to this test and sound great at any volume?
Mike, actually try comparing them like I have and we can talk more about this. Trying to explain why I hear is pointless as the fact is that I do hear differences and can only attribute them to mastering or an inferior source. Example: MFSL used the digital master for Bryan Adams Reckless. How do I know you ask? Well for one there is zero tape hiss and I do mean none. Two, I have the very first Japanese pressing and guess what? It has tape hiss so that's how I know for certain. Every other CD mastering uses this digital master FWIW as I've heard the Japan 2nd, the W. German 1st, the UK 1st and the US 1st, plus the Canadian 1st.
You're not answering my question Rob. Please do because I'd like to know your thoughts on why Steve's hold up while most others do not to my suggested test listen method. I have no objection to learning something new.
I had to listen to Blow by Blow last night. I compared the Sony Gold and the SACD, to the MFSL. I preferred the MFSL. I just don't know how this pressing can be considered bad. It sounded superb on my system. Dave is wrong again.
In this thread, Dave is stating his opinion as are all the other posters. Any member can disagree with Dave but asking him to defend his position is inappropriate in this setting. In other words, you can state, "Dave, I disagree with your opinion on this CD. Here's why I do" but conversely, you cannot say, "Dave, prove your point of view". We allow the former but we do not allow the latter No, Dave is not wrong. He simply has an opinion different than your personal experience. This does not make him "wrong" nor does your higher opinion of the referenced disc make you "right". This simply means that you and Dave have a different opinion and point of view. It is what it is. Need I remind (2) long standing members about our requirement to be both polite and diplomatic in making posts? I guess this was required as a friendly reminder for a number of participants in this thread. Yes, Dave has strong opinions about what he hears. But remember, they are opinions, just as valid on this site as any other member's opinion on sonic preferences. Discuss these differences ad naseum but, show some tact and decorum in doing so and then, Dave will reciprocate in kind. Thank you! Gort Bob
The problem though Bob, is that if you consistently look at Dave's past posting history when it comes to these things, he regularly calls out other members' opinions as wrong when he does not agree with them. He writes his posts with a false air of superiority and condescension, usually coupled with a meaningless namedrop, and that is what gets other members here aggravated. I think everyone here would be more than happy to let Dave and everyone else have their opinions and be able to state them freely. But what's good for the goose is good for the gander, and Dave -- as much or even moreso than other members -- is guilty of calling out other members' opinions as wrong; as if his were the only one that mattered. Two wrongs do not, of course, make a right, but all that's happening here is the same thing Dave has been doing to other members for quite some time now.
Ric, My comments were directed at all members posting in this thread including Dave. We need to "move on". If there are any other concerns, please voice these concerns via PM to any Gort on duty and not in this thread. Thanks! Bob
