Dark Side Of The Moon - Holy Grail

Greg

I had 2 black faced Harvests-one with a TO matrix and one without.
They were exactly the same-both had Ticket Ride removed.

 

Stereophile magazine had two articles when the SACD came out in which they threw "Money" up on CoolEdit, and showed that it was somewhat compressed/clipped, and also showed the standard (Doug Sax?) CD DSOTM track to compare.

http://www.stereophile.com/news/11649/


cj

 

I still say that was a bogus test. He ripped the CD layer and then did an analog transfer of the SACD layer. Not a very even comparison to say the very least.

Doug has said the CD and SACD layers are the same mastering. I don't know why that's never brought up. Instead we keep getting that awful Stereophile article.

 

Does the non-TO mastering refers to the HARVEST CDP 7 46001 2?

 

Yes. That's definitive.

 

It refers to the matrix number. "Non-TO" is a CD which has "CP 35-3017" but no "TO" in the matrix.

However, as reported in the above post, there are exceptions.

We should really call this mastering the "non-Ticket To Ride mastering".

 

PW, we're going to have to throw in the UK pressings as well I think to put the lid on this album once and for all. We already know the US and Canadian 1st pressings don't come close.

Anybody care to loan us a black-faced Harvest with the CP35-3017 in the matrix and any other variants?

 

I don't even know what "same mastering" means between SACD and CD. Is the redbook layer "downsampled" from the SACD layer?

 

Andreas,

My Pink Floyd DSOTM Harvest CD does not have "TO" in the matrix. Is this the one that you are referring when you say it's the Holy Grail?

Ruel

ps. I also have the 20th Anniversary and the 30th Anniversary hybrid SACD but I have not done any comparison.

 

What is the matrix number in your Harvest please and is it a black or silver-faced CD? Thanks

 

It may have been mapped down with SBM.

 

That would most certainly be the same mastering.

I'll try to find out how they did it. Even if they played the tape again through the PCM converters the mastering would be the same. He worked so hard to get it how he wanted it why would he change it?

 

It refers to the Harvest as well as:

1) the Black Triangle discs without the TO in the matrix but with the UK catalogue number, like the two I sold last week

CP35-3017 33B4 CDP 7 46001 2
CP35-3017 28A6 CDP 7 46001 2

2) the Black Triangle non-TO without the UK catalogue number in the matrix. I have a mint copy that I will shoot out with Dave's (and the other discs):

CP53-3017 51A2 +++++ This has "CSR Compact Disc" three times around the centre hole. It is not from the Toshiba plant.

I am looking forward to comparing the blackface with the black triangle with the UK number. They should be the same...


I did compare the last two non-TO with UK catalogue number with Dave's and the difference is noticble, but you have to have the system - I don't. They all sound great, but this has different sound staging and imaging - which is why it sells for twice the amount of the UK in the matrix versions.

I'm not saying the others don't sound great - they do . This just has something extra which you will "get" if your system can reveal it. Mine can't, so I am happy with other versions.
Actually, I don't like the album very much - I listen to side 2 once in a blue moon - which is why I sell off all the Japan discs and keep the Canada 20th Anniversary edition for myself. I dosen't matter to me which one is the "holy grail", I am just passing on information from what I have actually heard. Take it or leave it.

"Obscured By Clouds" is another story; I can't wait to hear the CP32 version.

I have a Japan Harvest disc coming. I hope it has a black face, though. Here is a photo I was sent

 

totally agree with this...I am more than satisfied with the MFSL version and SACD version. You really can't go too wrong here though.

 

I'm happy with my 20th Anniversary disc. I'll compare it with TO and non-TO versions tonight to see how they all sound on my humble system.

 

I have heard both and the Harvest is the clear sonic superior.


Evan

 

This would suggest that the mastering was all done in analogue...is that correct? And if the tape was played twice, the exact same mastering moves would have been made twice.

 

Most guys still use analog gear. Doug Sax uses amazing class A tube gear designed by his brother.

I have an email into him. We'll see what he says (unless he's completely worn out on the subject).

 

Since you mentioned it, I'm hoping that you'll report back on this one, actually. I wonder how it compares to the original West German pressing. I'm a big OBC fan.

 

I don't have a W. German to compare with. It seems that in many cases it's the Japan and W. German discs which come out on top.

Is there a West German "Dark Side of the Moon"? I haven't heard any mention of one.

 

If your still looking for a black-faced CP35-3017 Harvest issue to use in the shootout, drop me an e-mail.

 

I have 1-3 of these, so let me know if you really need one. I have 1 for the car and 2 backups.

 

I reread the article, and his methodology for obtaining the SACD layer audio for the purpose of displaying its dynamics was entirely valid. He was comparing the sacd with the redbook layer, to compare waveforms in terms of dynamics.

I think a proper comparison would simply be to rip the SACD redbook layer and the Doug Sax or MFSL (doesn't matter) and compare them, since no one argues that the dynamics on both of those items are correct.

So I did.

If I can figure out how to display images in this posting, I'll show the results...

This first image is the MFSL Money, with amplitude normalized - ie, increased by 6 dB (they mastered it so peaks hit only -6dBFS), in order to be able to clearly compare the dynamics situation (ripped using Exact Audio Copy, displayed in CoolEditPro):



This second image is the SACD redbook layer, ripped, and displayed as it came off the disc, using Exact Audio Copy:



The peaks are clipped. The last image is a detail shot of one clipped peak:



Clearly, the SACD redbook layer of Money is clipped and abnormally high in amplitude. Probably if the peaks were at 0dBFS, the dynamics would be pretty close to correct.

Again, the MFSL, as ripped, was about 6dB lower than my image above. I merely normalized it for easier viewing here.

That was fun. I learned how to use printscreen, and upload images to the forum.

cj

 

Hi Dave,

It is a black-faced CD with CDP 7 46001 2 and CP35-3017 30B2 written on the reflective silver ring near the center hole of the disc.
It is made in Japan with Harvest label.

Ruel

 

Based on the photo that you attached, that's exactly how the back cover of my Harvest CD looks like.