Comparison of $700 turntable and $8,000 turntable. As you would expect.

Not me - looks awful. I'm happy to hear it's a good performer.

 

Ctiger2 -

 

I don't understand your post. Listen to our samples and you hear sound that is usually quite good.

 

Yea, it's not the prettiest. I'm willing to wait for MT10.1

 

I think that what he's saying is that with more and more investment the sound has improved. At least that's how I took it.

 

Unbalanced Combinations

A friend has just took the plunge into vinyl. He has a $299 Project table which he plans to replace. But, while visiting a shop, he heard, and liked a setup with an Ortofon PW cartridge. He purchased the $3400 cartridge. Another mutual friend mounted the PW on the Project table. This involved finding and mounting a big stainless steel weight because the arm's counterweight was not designed to handle the 18gm cartridge.

I've heard the result. The table sounds reasonably good, though inner groove tracking is a bit problematic. I would NOT recommend such a combination (I hope the arm does not collapse before a replacement arm/table is found).

 

I suspect if he spent $3400 on a new turntable and put the old cart on he could have heard more of a difference.

 

Very true, but at the same time, most of us here who post needledrops have pretty modest costing setups. The sound quality that Grant and Stefan get out of the Music Hall and Pro-Ject TT's using an Audio-Technica AT150ML, and the Cambridge phono stage are pretty staggering to my ears. For the money, I have never heard better. We're talking around a $1000.00 or so total, for the gear.

 

The problem with the test is clearly different cartridges. I was thinking about using the same cartridge on different turntables and do needledrop them and see if one can hear any big difference.

 

I heard the McIntosh table at CES. I was very impressed. I'm not surprised you dig it, Steve.

 

I do think that this was an unfair experiment. You changed more than one variable. You changed the Turntable (obviously) and also what cartridge was in each Turntable. Now I know some of you get really crazy about the arm and the tracking of each table but it seems to me the focus should be on does the turntable you use affect playback with the same cartridge.

 

And was it mentioned whether the same cables were used? ...

But Stve has already acknowledged that he wasn't performing any kind of listening test beyond a listening comparison of two complete record-playing packages. And he found that he preferred one over the other.

Though I wonder how much that sexy green-lit platter influenced him?

But I guess that was all "part of the package"

 

That salesman should have been shot.

 

It's snakes like him that give audiophiles, the high-end, and salespeople a bad name!

 

I believe there was an understanding between the salesperson and my friend that a much better table/arm will be purchased. I think my friend just couldn't wait to try the cartridge even though he has not yet settled on what new table to buy. He is looking in the $10,000 range for the table (not including tonearm), so the Per Windfeld cartridge is not inappropriate.

The mutual friend who mounted the cartridge and jury-rigged the counterweight likes SME arms, so SME probably has the inside track as far as the arm is concerned (I like SME arms for their great tracking ability too). A good friend is a dealer for Vector/Basis and Graham, so they are in the running for a "cheap" purchase too.

 

FWIW, AJ Conti (Basis CEO) isn't big on expensive cartridges. I know he is clearly focused on arms and tables, but I wouldn't have flinched if he recommended something expensive.

 

I think the better way would have been to put the $500.00 cart on the Mac and see if you could hear anything better then while it was mounted on the MMf

And unless the MMF has a different tonearm then my Pro-Jects all three of my Pro-Ject arms are fully adjustable. And MMF uses the same tonearms.

 

The Mac turntable is just a Clearaudio turntable with a different base, right? I'm positive I've seen Clearaudio 'tables demoed at CES with different tonearms, so it shouldn't be that hard to replace the tonearm/cartridge with another, to provide a totally fair comparison. (I agree, this would be impractical with a loner.)

I think for the well-heeled McIntosh audience, they'd want a plug-'n-play solution with no setup problems, and that's why they went this route. Me personally, I think you can't beat the sound quality of the SME turntables. But the new Mac has absolutely got my vote for sex appeal, for the meter alone. Beautiful design.

 

Again... if we're on the subject of telling Steve what to do , I'd certainly appreciate needledrops more than equalizing the tonearm/cartridge. I think that the existence of large differences between the two systems is more important than isolating the differences down to the table alone.

Getting an ADC which adequately preserves the distinctions between the two tables should not be a problem.

 

as an mmf-7 owner. i agree that you're short changing the table with that cart. i get some incredible sounds using a grado sonata (msrp $500) with the mmf-7 but unfortunately also get excessive sibilance, a trait of the cart. truly incredible mid range realness is possible with that table i think.

 

Glad my local Mc dealer doesnt have a demo of the MT10, i probably couldnt escape the home demo. It would certainly look good paired with my other McIntosh equipment. I wouldnt purchase without a home demo, too much dough to purchase site unheard. Wonder about diminishing returns compared with my Scoutmaster.

Regarding the stock cart on the MT10, there is speculation it is based on the Clear Talisman with some guesstimating bout 1500 of the asking price going towards the cart. just speculation AFAIK. i know of one person who swapped the stock cart with a $3500 Clear Strativarius with an apparent large leap in performance according to his ears FWIW.

 

If the TT/arm/cartridge is a system then leave it alone and judge it as is. If you think the comparison unfair put a better/comparable cartridge on the other table but don't screw with a system designed to work as an integrated unit.

 

that's what i was getting at, i think that the mmf-7 is capable of better sound than that cart can provide. all that being said, i just unhooked mine for a new set up tonight. so far the jury is inconclusive after 2 hours. the new tt/cart/arm is about $3500 more than the setup on my mmf-7. i'm trusting a break-in period will occur.