"Christmas Songs" (Columbia) by Sinatra (incl. 2019 HD release updates)*

Bob or Martin can correct me, but I seem to recall a post by Charles Granata on the Sinatra Family Forum that basically said that Columbia would not allow him to make ANY changes to this release when he re-mastered it in 2004, as far as content or the booklet. The only thing you have to go by (without opening the CD packaging) is the catalog # (CK 92702) & the gold border around the edge of the booklet. (BTW, if anyone sees one of these out there, holler!)

Dexter

 

What is the 18 track Christmas Collection like?

 

Chuck's post: here.

 

Yes, it has the 2004 catalogue number (CK 92702), the FBI warning and the gold frame border on the front cover. I don't understand the logic not allowing any changes in the content of the booklet and the absence of the year '2004' anywhere in the packaging or on the disc - very confusing. I haven't heard any of the earlier CD versions, but I was expecting slightly better sound quality.

Since this 2004 version was remastered, was 'Cedar" and 'No Noise' used on this version?

 

The whole thing is rather confusing. The version in the blue box comes from a session on July 3, 1947, whereas the version on "Christmas Songs By Sinatra" has been recorded a week earlier (June 26, 1947). Both versions have been given the same matrix number (HCO2419).

Does this mean that there are actually FOUR different versions out there? If I understand correctly, the one in the blue box is the original 78rpm take, whereas Columbia picked the wrong take for the "Christmas Dreaming" LP in the 1950s. They choose yet another previously unreleased take for the 1980s CD incarnation of that album and went back to the original release take for the blue box. The "Christmas Songs By Sinatra" CD has yet another different take that was previously unavailable.
Even more confusing is that the arrangement from both sessions is virtually the same.

 

There are 4 versions if the one on CK 92702 is indeed an unreleased alternate take. It is not asterisked as such in the notes but is given a matrix number of HCO 2419-2N.

If it is it would make 3 versions from 6/26/47 and 1 from 7/3/47.

Same story with "Christmas Dreaming". If it is an unreleased alternate on CK 92702 then there are 2 versions from 6/26/47 and 1 from 7/3/47. The matrix number from the CD is HCO 2420-1N but it is not asterisked as an unreleased alternate take.

 

Many thanks for your reply, Ronald. I'll be checking HYAMLC again later today.

Meanwhile I've compared the versions of "Christmas Dreaming" I have on hand. As already mentioned, the takes on the blue box and on "Christmas Songs By Sinatra" are different. I've spotted the CSBS take on two different European CDs, so I don't believe that this take remained unissued until the CD era. Of course, this isn't necessarily a proof (since some of these labels keep ripping-off the transfers from official product), but I had to re-pitch both recordings (making me believe that these are three different transfers). My suspicion is that this is the take that has been used on the "Christmas Dreaming" LP (and that would match with Bob's description above as well).

Unfortunately, I do not have the "Christmas Dreaming" LP or CD to compare...

 

***CORRECTION*** Re: Columbia "Have Yourself A Merry Little Christmas"

Indeed it is. I must apologize for some incorrect statements I made above. (That will teach me to rely on a single particular source when I'm away from my complete notes and sets of references. )

Correct, if by "Christmas Songs By Sinatra" you mean the CD(s) (NOT the original Columbia 78 album set and 10" LP).

No, there are just THREE versions...

Correct.

No, I believe the CSBS CD has the take which was used on the 1957 Christmas Dreaming LP. I don't have access to that LP, but this appears to be the case, based on track times and three independent sources.

I don't think it's an unreleased alternate take, but I can't be certain. A comparison to the 1957 LP (or 1988 Japanese CD) is needed to be sure. The take number "2N" in the booklet is suspect.

Here is what I "believe" to be the correct information:

"Have Yourself A Merry Little Christmas"
Arranged and conducted by Axel Stordahl
Recorded at CBS Vine Street Theater in Hollywood, CA
Two takes recorded June 26, 1947 from 7:15 p.m. to 12:15 a.m.
A third take recorded July 3, 1947 from 9:30 p.m. to 12:00 a.m.
All are Columbia mx. HCO 2419:

1. Take 1 (June 26, 1947): Length = 2:33
   1957 LP: Christmas Dreaming (CL 1032)
   1966 LP: The Early Years: Have Yourself A Merry Little Christmas (Harmony HL 7400/HS 11200)
   1988 CD: Christmas Dreaming (CBS/Sony 28DP 5287) [Japan]
   1994 CD: Christmas Songs By Sinatra (CK 66413)
   2004 CD: Christmas Songs By Sinatra (CK 92702) [remastered]
   
   
2. Take 2 (June 26, 1947): Length = 2:38
   1987 LP: Christmas Dreaming (PC 40707)
   1987 CD: Christmas Dreaming (CK 40707)
   
   
3. Take 3 (July 3, 1947): Length = 2:47
   1948 78: b/w "Santa Claus Is Comin' To Town" (38259) [Disc 4 of 4 in album set Christmas Songs By Sinatra (C-167)]
   1948 10" LP: Christmas Songs By Sinatra (CL 6019)
   1993 CD: The Columbia Years 1943-1952: The Complete Recordings (CK 52871) [Disc 6 of 12 in box set (CXK 48673)]

[ Note about sources: Almost all of what I've listed here is corroborated by (1) Nascimento Silva's "Put Your Dreams Away" discography; (2) Rednour's "Songs by Sinatra" songography; and (3) the "Where Or When" CD-ROM database. The only disagreement is that the WOW database incorrectly lists the BBB version as Take 1 instead of Take 3, but I have personally verified that is incorrect. ]

Indeed, but there are differences in timing which permit the different takes to be differentiated. I've compared all four versions on CD listed above (except the Japanese CD). I can confirm that the two Christmas Songs By Sinatra versions (1994 and 2004) are the same (except for mastering), but the 1993 BBB and 1987 CD versions are both different. Places to listen are at 0:27 ("next year all our troubles") and 1:58 ("until then we'll have to muddle through somehow").

 

I meant to mention that the tempo is perceptibly slower in the original (Big Blue Box) version, which runs 9–14 seconds longer than the other two takes.

 

Many thanks for the information, Bob. I have three different versions of HYSAMLC here, but neither one seems to be identical. This could of course also be the consequence of poor playback equipment during the transfer. I'm still overwhelmed of how precisely the two different versions of "Christmas Dreaming" match. If you are not listening closely, you couldn't tell the difference.

 

It cost me $6.99 to learn that it replicates the older (1994) Columbia/Legacy version. Exactly. (The disc is digitally identical.)

It's a real budget effort. The front cover has a Capitol-era photo of Sinatra, and the disc label is plain white. There are no liner notes (just song titles), with a late Columbia-era studio photo of FS on the back of the meager two-page insert.

The catalog no. is A 711106 on the Sony Music CMG (Custom Marketing Group) label; UPC bar code is 88697-11106-23. The copy I just received from Amazon is printed: "© 2009 Sony Music Entertainment / This compilation (P) 1994 Sony Music Entertainment."

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000QUEQDG​

 

That's really disappointing, but thanks Bob.

 

So Charles Granada's 2004 remastering is out-of-print. Wonderful. How brilliant can you get, Sony? I guess I look for it used...and hope it really is the 2004 edition!

Dexter

 

My sentiments exactly, Dexter. Chuck Granata's name (or that of producer Didier Deutsch) doesn't even appear on the packaging.

I understand from an SFF member that this budget reissue was also sold last year, but with the original cover art. So buyers should stay away from the CMG catalog number (A 711106) and look for the one with the gold border on the front cover (CK 92702):

​

 

The problem is finding it..and making sure you can return it if it's wrong. I e-mailed one seller who basically didn't have time or the inclination to check.

Dexter

 

They should be readily available. I wouldn't buy from a seller who won't even supply the bar code number. That's really all you need, to know what you're getting.

 

I just received a used copy from an Amazon seller but fear that its not really the 2004 version of the disc. It has the gold border on the front cover and the proper code on the disc itself (CK 92702). but (a) its dated as 1994, (b) the booklet looks photocopied and (c) the disc info does not turn up when i inserted the disc into itunes. Any advice? Thanks.

 

If it has the big FBI warning on the disc you are good! The 1994 disc does not have that.

 

Thanks. Yes it does have the FBI warning. But the tray is grey and has "Essential Holiday Classics" printed on it. Does that sound right? Its weird to me that itunes could not retrieve the disk information.

 

Yup so does mine. FBI warning on the back too.

 

Yes, it does. I believe you have a 2004 remaster.


I had the same confusing experience (see posts #20 and #29). The signs that you have a 2004 remaster are: (i) the 2004 catalogue number -CK 92702; (ii) the FBI warning on the back cover; and (iii) the gold frame border on the front cover.

The year '2004' does not appear anywhere in the packaging or on the disc. As well, the liner notes in the booklet and the album credits are exactly the same as the 1994 CD. "Essential Holiday Classics" slogan appears in the tray area; I believe that it is unique to the 2004 version.

It's all very confusing. And as I mentioned before, I haven't heard any of the earlier CD versions, but I was expecting slightly better sound quality on this disc.

 

Thanks!

 

The 2004 issue improves on the sound quality of the 1994 release. Remember that these are primarily transfers of direct-to-disc recordings (and radio airchecks) made from 1944–47.

 

That does not speak well for the sound quality of the 1994 CD. For me, the sound quality of the 2004 disc did not live up to all of the praise of which I read. (IMO) Other CDs of material of (roughly) the same era have achieved better results (IIRC), such as: "It's All So New!" and "Learn to Croon" by FS and Tommy Dorsey and His Orchestra (radio transcriptions of live performances, mastered by SH) and "The Essential FS: The Columbia Years", a 2003 single compilation disc restored and mastered by the team of Granata, Deutsch, Darcy L. Proper, Matt Cavaluzzo and Andreas Meyer. Did this same group of individuals also work on the 2004 Christmas CD?

Who is responsible for the remastering of the 2004 Christmas CD? The erroneous credits in the booklet (Executive Producer: Jerry Shulman; Producer: Deider C. Deutsch; Project Director: Charles Granata; Archival Restoriation and Mastering: Tom Ruff) are from the 1994 edition.

 

Aside from the remastering engineer, I would guess that the others would still be credited as nothing is new besides the remastering, and perhaps Tom Ruff re-did this as well.