Carbon Fiber Brush - Microabrasions!

Interesting thread. I too noticed some fine scratches on new vinyl after using an Audioquest brush prior to cleaning.

 

Ye won't believe this but my dog in the last 5 minutes managed to get her teeth into my year's old Hunt EDA record cleaner. Problem solved, but not quite the way I wanted to!

JG

 

Do these surface marks remain if you wash the vinyl?

 

Yep, they're scratches.

 

I try to avoid making absolute statements but this is just not possible. I'll put my cleaned vinyl up against ant uncleaned vinyl, any day. Somebody posted the other day that they've never cleaned any vinyl and it's all played fine...

 

It's possible that if you REALLY take good care of your NEW vinyl and follow certain procedures and under certain conditions, such as always to play the record with the dustcover down, put it immediately into the inner sleeve after play, live in an environment with minimum dust etc. then it is possible that you can get away with no cleaning.

I never clean any new vinyl unless absolutely necessary and I have records who play fine after many years. For the stuff that I buy used and no matter how clean it looks, everything makes a trip to the VPI first before it lands on my turntable.

 

Most new vinyl is trashed the 1st time you pull it out of the paper sleeve. So much debris is statically attracted to the LP that it takes a wet clean to make it playable. Some MFSLs and audiofile releases can be played without cleaning but they are all improved with a wet clean. And I'm only using a Spin Clean and an EV1.

And yes I've always taken really good care of my vinyl. That's why records I bought new in the 70's sound wonderul... After cleaning.

Have you ever compared one of you majic LPs after a good cleaning?

 

Hey Jim,
I don't know what are the "majic LPs" so I cannot answer that, I was just saying that it's possible for someone to keep his new LPs clean without necessarily having to clean them on the machine.

 

I mean majic in that you must be buying some kinda different LPs than the ones I buy. I've gone from radio shack brushes growing up to Disc Washers and an Orbitrac from my 20-40s to the Hunt and Acoustech brushes in combo with a Zero Stat when I got back into vinyl in '07 and I never heard what vinyl could sound like until I used the EV-1.

Folks getting into vinyl on this board ask about spending multiple hundreds of dollars on TTs, carts and preamps but disregard the biggest improvement, bang for the buck... Clean records.

As you own a VPI I would think that rather than "possibly get away with no cleaning" you would want all your records to perform at their utmost potential. Don't get me wrong, I "try" to play all my new LPs before they are cleaned but after that they all go in the to be cleaned pile.

Please don't take one ill-chosen snarky word as a personal attack. For that I appologize.

 

No, Jim, no reason to apologize, I did not think that it was a personal attack, I just didn't get it.

Yes I have a VPI which I use all the time cleaning records but, to tell you the truth, it's a boring thing to do so I try to avoid it as much as I can, that's the reason that I don't clean my new LPs.

But I will take up your advice and I will try cleaning a few new records.

 

I think you'll find it makes a nice difference. Cleaning records certainly isn't fun but it has been worth the effort to me.

 

There are very different carbon fiber brushes out there... some are much softer than others.

Been using Clearaudio Carbon Fiber brush for years now, and not a single scratch/mark/abrasion in sight... it works perfectly and faultlessly.

Clearaudio brush is indeed much more expensive than a few other apparently similar options. They are quite different. I tried another brand that cost me half the price of the Clearaudio (it might have been Audioquest) and the bristles were immensely more stiff and harsh (still don't remember seeing any scratches but I wasnt looking for it back then). I threw it away as it simply didn't feel right...

The issue discussed in this topic is probably a problem with some brushed that are not manufactured to the right specs.

 

I have an Audioquest brush, a Hunt brush, and the Mapleshade one that has a ground wire attached. When viewed in bright sunlight, all of them leave marks on vinyl. I don't think the marks are audible, but it's still kind of scary.

 

I personally have not just 'got' into vinyl in the last decade or so. I have played around with it for at least 50 years. The claims being made about scratches made with the likes of the Hunt and Decca carbon fibre brushes being used, are preposterous and O.C.D just gone rampart. All this, after hearing of all the other strange outlandish 'handyman' and wash laundry concoctions being applied to vinyl surfaces (I:E) to say, remove ingrained grit and muck from previous obtained second -hand owned stock. Yet we then also see some users state how they are using tone arms and known cartridge combinations that are a clear mismatch . Based on stated various tonearms used - their weight/ friction forces set against some cartridge's compliance/tip mass/ tracking pressure margins. I have in little wonder, why I then see complaints arising, due to some tracking or tracing problem.

Have they, that claim 'scratching' by making contact with vinyl with carbon brushes (containg a million or more at least flexible bristles -thinner than human hair ) ever tried to equate and balance their theory against - what the actual force is , in pounds per square inch - when they actually play that some vinyl disc with a stylus?
Once these two different 'forces ' are brought together into consideration- the carbon bristles 'scratching discs' matter -collapses in a heap. I would be more concerned what the disc is resting on, while any cleaning process took place. If I ever have to, I use a secure anti slip/slide Milty anti static work- cleaning mat.

 

Far from OCD. I have literally taken a brand new record, with a few specks of dust, lightly (very) wiped the Hunt brush across and seen scratches from the exact path of the brush, i.e. no where else on the LP, and not there previously.

I will not argue that I can hear the effects of the scratches, but I don't feel like there is any benefit to purposely deface the records, so my Hunt brush went in the trash.

 

I'm super paranoid about stuff like this which is why I don't own a brush and never have. Now that I've decided to dedicate to analogue playback I'll be getting a cleaning machine.

 

RCMs are great for an intitial clean but it's nice to have something to use before each play.

 

When using carbon fibre brushes , the one thing I never do is wipe the brush "across the grooves" in any form of line from label to disc edge.

 

It leaves marks regardless of the angle of the brush motion.

 

No doubt a good precaution, but how do you get the line of dust off the record?

 

I never have 'a line of dust' on an LP I have used my Oracle CF brush on. (it is an old brush, no longer made?)
I do vacuum off any LPs that seem to have noticable stuff on them.
Only Lps with what seems to be fine dust in the grooves get a quick sink rinse off. (which is all they need)
I do not clean new LPs. Though if I do rinse off an LP, I play it right away.

 

I find it rather remarkable that people can appear to see fine miniscule scratches in direct line of sight of the actual grooves.

 

Somehow I do. The more, some people keep fussing and fiddling with record surfaces, up goes the static, further. Making 'lifting dust' more difficult.

 

I have never cleaned a record in my life (mostly because I am lazy and I can't be bothered) and it's all played fine to me assuming it's in decent shape to begin with and the grooves aren't trashed, if that's the case cleaning it won't do any good. Dust on records never bothered me a bit. I have bought several records that were cleaned by that keith months machine and loricraft as well, I didn't notice any difference, not a big selling point to me. I have played some records with tons of visible surface dust that were actually pretty quiet and sounded better than new. I think gandy has a point, which is don't believe all the claims that are made, don't worry about it and just enjoy the music.

 

There is land between the grooves.