Bruce Springsteen "Born To Run" old CBS CD. Wow, it cannot be beat.

It would seem so, Keith... check the links (to an older thread) in Post #81.

 

Heck, now we want the tray/insert info as well!!

Scans would be "Boss"...

 

Fair enough on the point that Mr. Hoffman is referring to a later mastering. Many of us would argue that the early 35DP is the "grail", but that's for another thread. Perhaps Steve would consider listening to the "grail" for this album. It's pretty darn good. I'm sure many of us would happily mail it out to him for a review if that's what it takes to get people listening to great, well-mastered CDs.

 

Thanks for the clarification, didn't mean to shoot you down

 

This is all very strange because I've compared masterings 1 and 3 and I found that the mastering on 3 sounded a bit more trebly. Almost similar to 1 without the proper de-emphasis. 3 sounded futzed with. Not majorly, but just given some extra treble to account for the mud in the mix.

The snare sounded more papery in 3. Almost like comparing a made in Japan Steely Dan Aja to a later DIDX pressing made in USA.

Of course my observations are subjective.

 

well, mine is this "grail" that you speak of, and has repeating CSR in the plastic hub (which Steve's post did not mention)....I guess only Steve can clear up the confusion, but I can say I really like mine

 

Ah yes. I remember it well. Thought all of this was covered already.

 

Hi Ivan,

Which one(s) do you have and which one do you prefer?

 

Referring (again) to Post #81, I have masterings from Groups #1, #3, #4, and #5. I also have a USA DADC copy, and I need to check if it has the Group #2 or Group #3 mastering.

I've never made a preference call, as I've never identified a version that I can honestly say I like, i.e., they all sound bad. IMO, this album is badly in need of a remix.

If I'm lucky, I'll have some time alone in the house next week, and I'll try to do a comparison. There are folks out there who have pooped on my gear, in the past, and that's okay... I know what I like, and I trust my own ears.

I still don't believe a CD that sounds like crap on a mid-fi system will really shine on a high-end system, but I accept that the high-end system could be more capable of differentiation in the context of more subtle differences, especially when they're associated with different masterings. So, if anything, the lack of resolution in my low-fi setup will only prevent me from differentiating between some of the different versions. If that's the case, I'll simply say so.

 

Thanks Ivan!

 

This disc pictured has the following EAC values...

Track 1 Peak level 60.5 %

Track 2 Peak level 75.3 %

Track 3 Peak level 52.2 %

Track 4 Peak level 56.7 %

Track 5 Peak level 75.3 %

Track 6 Peak level 52.2 %

Track 7 Peak level 43.2 %

Track 8 Peak level 59.0 %

 

In the "Old Atlantic 3 CD Box set: Ray Charles "The Birth Of Soul", you should grab this one", you wrote:

Can you come back and help sort out this confusion?

 

Not wishing to confuse things further but, in Europe at least, didn't the rear covers of the Made In Japan For Europe first editions lack barcodes; would not this be the same for Made In Japan For US first editions. I don't have BTR to hand but have just checked Made In Japan For Europe editions of WIESS, Darkness, The River and Nebraska (you know the one with the alternate mastering) and none of them have barcodes on the rear covers.

FWIW I'm pretty certain Steve is referring to this edition:

All have 35DP-21 in the matrix and should have pre-emphasis.
-Japan-for-U.S. pressing with catalog number CK 33795, Matrix 35DP-21 41A2

When Steve refers to CBS he is not referring to part of the catalogue number but rather referring to CBS being printed on the disc (as opposed to Columbia). CK 33795 is the catalogue number and Made In Japan is printed on the disc.

 

The presentation on a lesser system sounds veiled overall in contrast to a better system. Instruments and vocals will lack the tonality of the real thing. There will be no soundstage depth nor quiet, open spaces in the soundstage, etc, etc. I believe you'd be fairly pleased and quite suprised to hear what the grail BTR sounds like (or any "grail" for that matter) on a decent, well staged hi-end system. It's not the first Springsteen I'd grab for a demo (that would be Wild, Innocent), but I like it and I've been please to hear it keep getting better upon each upgrade. It's not subtle.

 

Sorry, I'm a little bit late in the game; is the 30th anniversary remaster crap? I haven't seen any mention of it...

 

Not crap, it's fine.
Born to Run was recorded/mastered to sound good on a single speaker car radio.
It's such a landmark album that everyone wants it to sound great on a nice rig.
The original cds to me are dull, so was the LP.
The remaster is EQ'd a bit to make it more dynamic and have some bass.
IMO, the best version I've heard is the Gold Columbia Mastersound disc.
It also is EQ'd but sounds better than the remaster in the box set.

 

This is my go-to version also but I have not heard the CK 33795, Matrix 35DP-21 41A2 disc. On my list though!

 

I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I enjoyed it more than any of the 80's versions. Since they weren't great sounding mixes to begin with, I really didn't mind some tinkering for the 30th anniv. version. Just my opinion, of course.

 

I never claimed that the changes in sonic presentation between a mid-fi and hi-fi system were subtle. What I said was that subtle differences (between different versions of the same disc) that may be noticeable on a high-end system might not be perceptible on a lesser system.

I also believe that a disc that sounds like a turd on my system will sound no better than a polished turd on your system (you don't have to argue this point with me... my mind is made up, and it is based on empirical evaluation).

Finally, to use your BTR versus WIESS example, I believe that WIESS will sound better than BTR on a mid-fi system, or a low-fi system, as well. It's just a better recording, period, and you don't need a million dollar system to perceive the differentiation.

 

I own the Now Made In The USA/Record Manufactured in Japan disc and recall owning it long before reading in ICE that newer unmarked versions would be made from the same master as the gold version.

My go to version remains the half-speed mastered CBS Mastersound LP.

 

Surprised to see people having either the Mastersound CD or the 1/2 speed mastered Mastersound LP as a "go to" version. I own both and they have issues.

 

Don't call your system lo-fi, that is a job for others to do as you well know. FWIW I did not know Cambridge Audio is lo-fi. Time to add that to my profile.

 

Before people start jumping off buildings, maybe Steve can let us know, specifically, what disc he owns.

As we all know, this stuff can be very confusing.

 

This entire thread is a surprise, but hopefully a few members will discover BTR all over again.

 

Fair enough.