Black Sabbath 'Paranoid' - CD sound comparisons

Haven't heard it, but wherever I look, I see it has the Castle Essential label, from 1996.

 

They both suck. Never compared them directly.

Having listened to the WB not long ago the main thing I noticed was that is was obviously made from a tape EQd for vinyl. Ward's drums suffer the most. Tinny and digital. I never liked the drum production on the original album, anyway, as it went for that "padded" sound, but they weren't tinny in that way that only the digital realm can attain.

 

Jeff, I currently own the WB MoR. I agree with you on the tape source not being perfect, and the sound could be much better.

I wouldn't go that far to say it sucks, though. I can listen to it at a high volume without my ears starting to hurt. I can't say this for any compressed CD mastering.

If the Castle remaster is the same mastering as on the 4-CD set "Under...", then I am not going to like it. The tape source might have been better, but it sounds harsh and unnatural to me.

My hope for MoR lies in the early Japanese CD version...

Roland

 

I agree with this! I have the black box and i recently found a s/t castle remaster to compare it to. The BB rhino version beats it clearly by my ears. Its not that the BB is louder (it really isn't that much louder if at all) it has more air/detail and it has much lower bass. It has more beautiful tape hiss! The bass on the castle remaster is rather boomy and there is a harshness to the overall sound that hard to describe, but its fatiguing. Overall, the BB s/t is the best sounding CD in the box set. Therefore, I look forward to comparing more castle remasters in the future. I'm really looking forward to finding Paranoid and IV (especially IV). However, this trashing of BB is getting ridiculous. This is a great sounding package - coming from someone that had the original WB CDs and grew up with the original WB vinyl.

BTW, i don't make comparisons with headphones cause I don't seriously listen to music with headphones (although i do listen to music at work with headphones).

 

Roland,

The 32PD Japan Vertigo of Master/Vol.4 sounds much better than the old WB CD. Actually, it sounds somewhat similar to the Castle remaster.

But it still sounds like it is from a tape EQd for vinyl, just a different one.

 

I did get the original, non-remastered Castle version of Vol. 4 which features a live bonus track from "Live At Last" (Children of the Grave).

First of all, the channels seem to be correct (hi-hat at the beginning of Supernaut is in the left channel).

Secondly, I think it sounds quite nice. Unfutzed with, w/o compression, and from somewhat decent tapes. I never heard the original WB, but it seems it has its problems.

I read that Vol. 4 in the Black Box is also messed up. And I listened to Vol. 4 tracks on the "Under the Wheels of Confusion" 4-CD set which supposedly has the Castle remastering.

The original Castle sounds much better than the remastered tracks on "Under the...". The album's fidelity isn't as good as Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, or the first album, but I think this is just because that is how it was originally recorded.

Roland

 

Well, tracks differ. "Tomorrow's Dream" has incredible, thick and full production, whereas "Wheels Of Confusion" sounds more like the Sabs just blasting away live in the studio with a few overdubs. The album really has different guitar tones and production approaches all the way through.

 

Yup, I agree.

Tomorrow's Dream indeed sounds very full and warm. Wheels Of Confusion seems to have the worst sound. The other tracks are somewhere in between on the Castle, but more towards Tomorrow's Dream.

Roland

 

I have been listening to my 3 versions of Paranoid lately. I have the Ray Staff remaster, the non-remastered WB US and the 1986 Castle without bonus live track. The Ray Staff is my least favorite. It is too far from a flat transfer to my liking. The WB sounds too thin and bright. To me the 1986 Castle clearly is the winner between this masterings. It especially have better bottom end and all over a better punch without being compressed at all.

 

Thanks for the info.

Which Castle version do you have, the one with or without bonus track. CLACD 197 ?

Do you have Master Of Reality on Castle from 1986?

Roland

 

This morning, I received the original 1986 Castle of "Sabotage". I can only compare it to the "Under Wheels of Confusion" 4-CD set, and I like the original Castle better.

The WB is supposedly also really good, so it would be an interesting comparison with the 1986 Castle.

Roland

 

I have the CLACD 197 without the bonus track
Matrix: CLACD 197 MPO 01 @@

I don't have any other early Black Sabbath cds exept the german Vertigo editions of Sabbath Bloody Sabbath and Live at Last.

This is the EAC peak levels from the CLACD 197:

Track 1
Filename F:\B\Black Sabbath\Paranoid Castle\Black Sabbath-Paranoid-(01)War Pigs.wav

Peak level 88.9 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 36485102
Copy OK

Track 2
Filename F:\B\Black Sabbath\Paranoid Castle\Black Sabbath-Paranoid-(02)Paranoid.wav

Peak level 72.4 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 3E743BBC
Copy OK

Track 3
Filename F:\B\Black Sabbath\Paranoid Castle\Black Sabbath-Paranoid-(03)Planet Caravan.wav

Peak level 50.4 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 0E705EBD
Copy OK

Track 4
Filename F:\B\Black Sabbath\Paranoid Castle\Black Sabbath-Paranoid-(04)Iron Man.wav

Peak level 64.4 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC D4336E7D
Copy OK

Track 5
Filename F:\B\Black Sabbath\Paranoid Castle\Black Sabbath-Paranoid-(05)Electric Funeral.wav

Peak level 89.3 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 3A7046CF
Copy OK

Track 6
Filename F:\B\Black Sabbath\Paranoid Castle\Black Sabbath-Paranoid-(06)Hand Of Doom.wav

Peak level 92.3 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC C5C3CF62
Copy OK

Track 7
Filename F:\B\Black Sabbath\Paranoid Castle\Black Sabbath-Paranoid-(07)Rat Salad.wav

Peak level 51.4 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 241A7812
Copy OK

Track 8
Filename F:\B\Black Sabbath\Paranoid Castle\Black Sabbath-Paranoid-(08)Fairies Wear Boots.wav

Peak level 99.3 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC D548B9D0
Copy OK

 

Is there a short beep in Rat Salad like there is in some of the remastered versions?

Roland

 

I know it's been mentioned that some people don't like the Black Box, but I may pick it up anyway. The Black-Sabbath.com website says that "These were remastered from the original Warner Bros source tapes - the 96 Castle remasters have a different (and unknown) source". When I get it--along with the WB Sabotage on the way--I'll post my findings here.

So the Castle/Essential remasters were credited to Ray Staff? Then again, Jeff already pointed out on earlier threads that there differences among the JPN Castles...can't really sort that out.

 

There is a high tone at around 31-32 seconds (if this is what you mean). I can hear this tone on all my versions included the WB one.

 

This sample is from the WB disc:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/zwpzr8

 

Greg, thank you very much. Unfortunately, I am still on a dial-up connection, so the speed is too slow for music downloads.

Roland

 

The WB disc of Sabotage is basically audiophile quality, IMO. It is one of the best sounding hard rock discs I have ever heard. Deep bass, great midrange, nice and soft in the high end and not earbleeding at all. It can *really* be cranked.

 

Sorry Roland...I was hoping you could check out that sample against what you have...oh well.

BTW, I just picked up the Black Box.
The good news is that these seem like clean, clear transfers from good tapes (for the most part), but the Bill Inglot signature is there. Anyone expecting a tipped-up top end will not be disappointed...I'm renaming this one The Bright Box.

Oh well, I asked for it.

 

Last update to this post.

Keith, I thought it was good listening to it... until I threw on Paranoid right after it and realized I was right in my begining post, don't ask. The WB's Sabotage is definitely compressed and bright sounding compared to their Black Sabbath, Master Of Reality, Technical Ecstasy, and Paranoid CD's.

 

I just purchased some Castle remasters and they are a hell of a lot more dynamic and smoother than the Black Box. The Black Box version of "Vol. 4" is astonishingly bad. The EQ is boosted to the extreme and there is way more hiss. Why couldn't Rhino get access to the masters like Castle did? The Black Box & Castle Remaster sound like two different albums, the mastering is so extreme. I wonder if Sharon Osborne was standing behind Bill Inglot, screaming in his ear to make everything louder and brighter.

 

How can you compare those albums? The mixes are totally different-sounding!

 

Dave,

The old WB CD of Sabotage is wonderful. The Rhino is compressed and bright.

 

Then she must have been there when he and Hersch did the Yes remasters, too. Similar approach on much of that stuff. They actually did *okay* on some of the Bright Box (love that, btw!) stuff, but the Castle remasters are superior in most cases, afaic.

 

Jeff, I guess you will have to do the comparison with the early Castle version sometime soon.

Roland