Black Sabbath 'Paranoid' - CD sound comparisons

Roland, it all depends which version of Paranoid you are used to. The tape faults and different tonality of the two versions (US WB vs UK Vertigo or Castle) tend to make you prefer the one you are used to. There is only VERY mild extreme peak compression on the Castle, but it avoids the quite severe tape faults and odd (IMHO - the Vertigo vinyl is what I grew up with) tonality. I feel the tape faults of the WB tape based albums are too intrusive and the Vertigo tape based CDs sound much better - again IMHO. Although it does not necessarily follow, it is a fair assumption that the pictures of the master tape in the Castle CD booklet (the jewel case version anyway) suggest that it may have been used. There is little doubt that the US WB tape is a bad copy.

 

How about the other Sabbath albums, are Castle remasters the best digital versions for them too? They are easily obtainable for a fair price here.

 

How do we differenciate between the various Castle discs? For the S/T I have the JPN mini-LP that says "Licensed from Castle Copyrights Ltd." on the J-card and "Manufactured and Distributed by TEICHIKU ENTERTAINMENT, INC. Japan" on the sleeve. TECI-24030. It's the only disc of the S/T I have so there's nothing else at the moment I can compare it to.

 

John, I agree with you that it is very likely that Castle had better tapes to work with than WB in the US.

By the way, I am not used to any specific version since I currently don't own this title on CD.

Since I really don't like compression (even in its milder form), I am wondering if the old Castle version is perhaps a good compromise (not being compressed and likely better tapes). This is more or less based on assumption, the only "fact" I have is that the old Castle (non-remastered) version of S/T and Sabbath Bloody Sabbath are both pretty good, and SBS is IMHO better than the US WB (which isn't bad either).

I guess I'll just have to find a used CD and find out for myself. Opions on the Black Sabbath catalog on CD differ greatly on this forum. Some like the Black Box, others the Castle remasters, and some like the WB. Then there are also the early Japanese CD versions, WG Vertigos, old Castle versions and more. There are just too many...

Roland

 

You can find all related info here:

http://sabbath.se/Discography/discographymain.html

This discography is really awesome. The only problem is that you probably can't own all different CD versions of each title and find out which one you like best.

Roland

 

FWIW, my original `96 copies of the first four albums (i.e, including the drop out in Fairies on Paranoid) all came with metallic silver stickers on the jewel cases with black text reading:

REMASTERED FROM
ORIGINAL MASTER TAPES
------------------------
FAITHFULLY RESTORED
ARTWORK

Hope this helps.

 

Thanks, I bookmarked the link. That is indeed quite a lot to sort through...I wonder how many variations of these are just the same mastering.

 

All I know is that I have three UK spiral Vertigo LP pressings coming in the mail, hopefully tomorrow (Paranoid, Master of Reality, Volume IV). I'm really looking forward to hearing these albums the way were meant to be heard!!

 

All variations of the Creative Sounds/Power Sound/NEMS CDs and the Warner Bros. CDs of the 1980s use the same masterings for each of these discs.

 

Thanks for posting this Roland. I just sent him the Canadian 1987 WB shot he was looking for.

 

WoW
There is a 'ton' of Castles of this title.
Are there just the two masterings?
W/o live track (one with problem & one fixed, however "same" mastering, correct?) & with live track?
Thanks.

 

Folks, the WB CDs of the first four albums are not very good. Do not buy into the idea that they are great because they are flat transfers. They *are* flat transfers, but sound like they were made from inferior tapes that were never intended for anything but cutting vinyl. Vol. 4 is the worst offender. The original WB CD is a joke! Starting with SBS the WB CDs get better. In fact, the original WB CD of Sabotage is tremendous. I'd rate it as audiophile level sound.

The Black Box is horrific in spots and okay in others. Loud, compressed: Avoid.

Frankly, at this point I think the Castle remasters are the way to go on the first five albums. If you want to compare them with other issues then check them against original Castles (non-remastered) and Japanese Vertigos. Note that the original Vertigo Japan pressings are not the same as the WG Vertigos! Those WG Vertigos were mastered by Hans Brethouwer and given smiley-face EQ treatment. The Japanese Vertigos are likely flat transfers.

Castle did screw up Technical Ecstasy in their remaster series, as well as H&H. The others are pretty damn good.

I'm not sure I'll ever have enough time to figure out the Sabs catalog. Sorry this isn't all more clear, but for the audiophile, their catalog is really a mess on CD. The Castle remasters are in *most* cases, not digital and tinny. They really seemed to have had better tapes. Ward's cymbals sound better and the main thing I think they did is goose the bass on most of the albums. Perhaps to try and match the sound of Sabbath on vinyl?

 

"Paranoid" Japanese LP Pressing - NEMS, SP 18-5011, Japan, 1980

hi all,

NEMS, SP 18-5011, Japan, 1980
- Black label

- Black obi and lyric insert

- No gatefold

this is the "Paranoid" pressing that i have found here at a local shop - does anyone know as to the source and/or sound of this release (or, anything on the NEMS label)?



thanx!

 

How so?

 

Way too much EQ, at least to my ears. TE sounds smiley-faced and H&H is just too crispy.

 

I guess that was the point of my original thread - I was wondering which of the two Japan pressings that I have is the flat transfer. As I mentioned above, the 33PD- pressing sounds horrible, whereas the 23PD- pressing sounds great. Do you know if the Teichiku mini LP CD uses the same mastering as the Castle? This is the only one I have been able to compare the 23PD to and the 23PD beats it (IMHO, of course!).

 

Yes, the Teichiku mini lp CDs use the 1996 Castle remastering.

I'd love to hear the 23PD of Paranoid. I had the 33PD series CD of Master/Vol. 4 (2 on 1) and it was pretty good. Certainly better than the WB CDs, but omitting "Under The Sun" to fit on one CD!

 

Btw, the problem with the Sabbath Vertigo Japan 23PD series CDs is this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...20007981669&rd=1&sspagename=STRK:MEWA:IT&rd=1

To hear these is a serious investment.

 

Do all the Castle remasters have that characteristic of being somewhat bright? I haven't looked at the wavforms on that TEICHIKU disc I mentioned, but with the exception of Evil Woman, it seems like it's loud as hell...can't really turn that one up.

 

This is good to know, thanks for the valuable information.

Roland

 

I have what I believe is the first Castle issue of Sabbath Bloody Sabbath from 1986 (w/o live track), and my friend has a later (1988) Castle issue with a bonus live track. A quick comparison (both, listening and digital content) showed that these are the same basic masterings. So far, I didn't notice any dropouts or other problems on any of them.

Since Castle was always more of a low budget company offering CD's at a special price, I don't think they invested in several different masterings. My assumption is that all the non-remastered Castle CD's offer pretty much the same mastering (but I cannot confirm that for sure).

The Castle remasters could be either a completely new transfer or a digitally manipulated version of the old transfers (some compression added, probably also some EQ changes). The old CD's also say that they were mastered from the original master tapes. That quote and a picture of some tape boxes and/or reels does not mean much in my opinion.

I am not going to invest in the Castle remasters since they have some compression. I am almost certain that there are better versions on CD than the Castle remasters out there (either original Castle versions or early Japanese versions).

If you just want to enjoy the music and don't mind a little bit of compression, the Castle remasters are probably good for you. They can be easily found and are not very expensive.

Roland

 

Just to clarify what I have said: They are still mastered by different facilities using different sources, of course, but all variations of the Creative Sounds/PowerSound/NEMS CDs use the same digital masters that Creative Sounds made, just different pressings as seen by the labels, and the Warner Bros. 1980s CDs use the same mastering, just different labeling.

 

What about Live Evil?

 

Iirc, they removed some between song banter to make it fit on one CD. I haven't compared the mastering to the WB.

 

Most Sabbath fans prefer the WB version of Live Evil over the Castle remaster.