Big Star's #1 Record and Radio City - Classic Vinyl

I've always found the concept of hot stampers to be the analog analog to the great green marker movement of the digital era. Here's the scoop, straight from Tom Port, the creator of this ...er, line of thinking:
http://www.dccblowout.com/dept.asp?dept_id=14-015-034
Always struck me as a novel way to create collector's items out of ordinary stock but, there you go.

 

Thanks a bunch for posting these needledrops. I'm a huge fan of both of the initial Big Star records and have multiple vinyl and CD/SACD versions of each. The needledrop of the Stax UK reissue sounds just like mine: smooth but veiled, distant, and oddly undynamic. Sounds like a tape a couple of generations down--and now and then I hear strange low-level burbling or thumping sounds that sound like tape artifacts of some sort.

The new Classic lp sounds very nice to my ears: it's got the sonic signature of the original lp but with more depth and dynamics, and with a little less spitty top end (which I agree is part of the charm, for me anyway). I'll be eager to see if the Concord lp turns out to be the same mastering. Then I'll probably buy them all. God bless Big Star.

 

I understand the concept. I just have a hard time believing ( if this is what is being said) that Classic would make a run of a certain hot stamper mastering of the first 50 and then change the mastering. Doesnt make sense. Maybe I am misunderstanding what is being said.

 

I agree- it makes absolutely no sense from a production standpoint. Marketing is a whole other question- get those orders in and move that plastic by telling them that, by ordering early, they'll get something better than those who wait (and possibly decide not to go forward at all).
Kind of like the old, this offer good for only 10 minutes; operators are standing by.

 

Ok the exact qoute :

"TheMusic.com guarantees that the first 50 of this item sold will be from the first (1S) stamper and will offer the Hand Select service at no additional cost."

From the first stamper? What, did the stamper wear out after 50?

If this is true,that only the first 50 are 1S stampers, I wonder if Concord clamped down on them and told them they couldnt use "their" mastering because of a conflict of interest?

Interesting. Im leaning more towards the Concord pressings being the same mastering as those first 50 CR's.

Still, we need some comparisons of someone who has the 1S Classic and the Concord.

 

as soon as i get the concords i'll post my impressions but i don't see what all the uproar is about.

 

Thanks, that makes sense about the 50 before the stamper might be getting old. Although I think its odd that a stamper woud get wear after that few-right?

Are you buying the Classics to compare?

Aas far as buing one companies over the other, its not a matter of me not wanting to spend the money on the CR's version if its the best. Its a matter of why should I if I can get it cheaper and its the same mastering?

Sorry if I came across as raging over this, wasnt my tone. I just saved up all my questions for one big post and it came across wrong I guess.


EDIT :

Actually, when you think about it "themusic" didnt say that ony the first 50 would be S1 stampers. They just said they guarantee that the first 50 they sell will be. So there could be more than 50 I guess.

 

I don't think they are implying that only 50 were pressed from the S1 stamper before disgarding it. I believe they are saying is that they are guarenteeing that the first 50 they sell from Music.com will be from the S1 stamper. The S1 stamper could have pressed hundreds (or thousands for that matter). They are just claiming that the first 50 they sell will be form the S1 stamper while number 51 and up may be from the S3 stamper or still from the S1 stamper.

 

According to the Classic website, Chris Bellman did the mastering. It's usually him or Bernie Grundman who master Classic titles.

Here's a review of the Big Star Concord releases http://myvinylreview.blogspot.com/search?q=big+star.

 

Classic/Themusic.com's 1S stampers have NOTHING to do with Tom Port's "Hot Stamper" BS. All that Classic/Themusic.com are saying is that the first 50 orders are guaranteed from the first stamper.

 

I'm one of the first 50 on #1 Record and I was not at all confused by the guarantee. Not sure why anyone would believe that the pressing of the 50 was limited or that only 50 were made from that stamper or that it had anything to do with the actual mastering. The web site makes the guarantee very clear IMO. My only observation about it is that there's no indication of what stamper was used. I trust The Music but it is an interesting sales tactic when there is no stamper number on the vinyl. No biggy since I'm happy with the album.

I really do believe that the release of the two pressings is not coincidence. Since Classic is geared toward collectors and audiophiles I'm sure that they'll sell less of those. Pressing a less expensive version would be a way to make the licensing money back. Just a guess on my part.

 

Fine, but how about a little disclosure, if in fact it is the same mastering? How many of us would've even bought the Classic if we knew we could get Bellman's mastering for $20 less? I know I wouldn't. I really don't care about the type or weight of their vinyl.

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if we never find out who in fact mastered the Concord vinyl.

 

I have mixed feelings about the topic...I have great sounding records pressed on super thin 70s/80s vinyl. I'm more concerned about the quality of the pressing and the quality of the vinyl. I wish every record company used the kind of vinyl formulations the Japanese were using during the 1970s -- just super quiet almost every time.

Well, I think if someone picks up the Concord and posts a sample, we'll be able to hear if it's the same mastering.

I have the Classics and, after listening, I have to say I like these better than the '78 UK Stax reissue I have. Worth getting and even at $30+ per album, that's a lot less than you're going to get original NMs for. The Classics sound more dynamic, quite a bit of EQing there, but I like the results. Thumbs up for the sound. As for these being heavy, audiophile pressings...I don't know. They're not really any quieter than most new vinyl I've been buying (the first pressings out of the Doors box set notwithstanding).

Dale

 

I'm not a fan of 200g, but I went for these because of who was doing the mastering. If the mastering is the same, then no way is paying this much extra worth it to me. I'm sure Concord's vinyl will be fine. As you say, the vinyl on the Classic is not that great. Certainly not up to the standards of say Music Matters.

And while we might be able to tell that the mastering is the same from listening, doesn't it kinda tick you off that somebody is not being very open about this. That's what get's me. I mean, what's the point? It's just a nasty little issue that get's under my skin, but what the hell, it ain't the first time it's happened.

All that being said, I still dig the reissues.

 

Yeah, it does.

Good question--does the "deluxe" or "audiophile" edition, considering sales and the price premium, really result in a better bottom line? Or?

So do I. At least we get good sound this time -- not always guaranteed by the "deluxe" or "audiophile" hype. I remember some years back I used to see those Italy and East European reissues of great, collectible 60s psych and garage that were extremely hard to come by on original presses -- then it turned out they were mastered from CD and sounded shrill and awful every time. Burned.

The Classic reissues show care for the music and, bottom line for me, sound good -- that makes up for any other sins.

Dale

 

Chris Bellman usually signs his vinyl CB in the deadwax so if it turns out the Concord does not have the CB and different writing in the deadwax, then it may be a different mastering.

In terms of the Classic Clarity vinyl, I took the Classic test that some of us posted about in the Fall. (see http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=162063&highlight=blue+train+clarity+vinyl) I for one found a modest improvement is sound quality between the same stamper pressing of John Coltrane's Blue Train on the Clarity Vinyl when compared to Classic's standard black vinyl. Others didn't find a difference. If you are an enthusiastic audiophile and love this LP and the mastering of the Classic and Concord are the same, the Clarity vinyl alone may account for a better sounding record. It will be interesting to hear from those who have both versions.

 

Have you talked to the band and John Fry recently to confirm this?

 

Recently? No. I interned at Ardent in the early 90s and hung out with John at a few lunches from time to time. I also spoke to Larry Nix (Ardent in-house mastering engineer) and Jodie Stephens (drummer) at that time. Recently? No.

 

But the whole reason for all this speculation is that he DIDN'T initial the Classic copies. Can anyone post a pic of the deadwax? If one person could, then the others could identify if it's the same writing or not. I have no expertise in getting the dead wax to show up in digital photo, but others have occasionally succeeded here.

 

Please then...could we have pictures of the deadwax figures on both copies?
Thanx!

 

We only need one. Then an owner of the other could identify if it's the same.

 

That's exactly how I feel about Classic. They've got impeccable taste, and you can usually be certain that the mastering on their records will be the excellent.

However, I wish whatever money they throw into coming up with new formulations and quiex and clarity and all that stuff - I wish they'd stop doing that stuff and reinvest that cash into QUALITY CONTROL. Clicks. Pops. Scuffs. I've had some real disappointments from Classic, and judging on past posts here at the forum, lots of others have too.

If I felt absolutely sure that I could buy Classic's Radio City and it wouldn't have any issues, maybe I'd bite the bullet and spend the extra $20, but every Classic purchase I make is fraught with fear and at this point I'd rather spend $12 on the Concord and not be as angry if/when the sound is less than perfect.

 

And for cryin' out loud, could Classic ever return an email?

Not that Concord is any better.

These companies could certainly take a lesson from Music Matters and have somebody hang around here once in a while to answer questions. It's common sense.

 

So a pic or scan of the matrix of either please!

 

Got the Classic editions today and A/B'd the 200g pressing of "No. 1 Record" with my original Ardent - the Ardent smoked it. Wish I could get a refund.

I am so done with hype like this.