Beatles Remasters On Vinyl: Please Post News Here (Part Two)

This "all-analog" mania is a bit funny, at least when it concerns vinyl...there can be some sense if we compare original analog mastertape vs. hi-rez digital, played on a professional studio equipment - may be in this case one can notice some difference (if is blessed with extraordinery, hi-rez ears, but the vinyl have his own limitations, and in both cases the original master(analog or hi-rez digital) have to be downgraded during the mastering, in order to fit these limitations - so really, if the vinyl mastering is properly made, there's no any difference if the original analog tape is used, or perfectly made hi-rez digital copy - even if the analog tape have some minor advantage above the digital hi-rez, they both are incomparable in all aspects with any final vinyl pressing, regardless how virgin, thick and heavy is the vinyl - the material and the technology just cannot handle the full quality of the master, because of it's own limitations. That's why the only important thing in this case is the dedicated vinyl mastering (of course, it have to be different from the CD mastering, even if the same analog or hi-rez digital source is used)

 

There is so much wrong with this I can't even think where to begin to respond. (No personal offense intended.)

 

Golden words...
I can 100% confirm what is quoted above. I know that some people will dislike it, but try to work in a pressing plant for some time and you will know that it is true.

 

Everyone's going to say the original UK, Japanese or German vinyl sounds better anyway so why are they even bothering? The mono box was an attempt to make cds sound exactly like the vinyl (except for removing a bit of hiss in Martha My Dear) so a remaster of a vinyl record sounding like a cd trying to sound like a vinyl record is taking futility to the limit.

 

Because not everyone has or can afford the original UK, Japanese or German vinyl.

 

so true.

 

Not if it were all analog produced on high quality equipment with a high quality pressing. Some of the new all analog Hendrix vinyl for instance...Axis Bold As Love. I have a digital vinyl copy that sounds real good, not as good as the all analog.

 

Well, don't count me in on "everyone"! The proof is in the (first, for me) The Blue Double Album and how it's going to sound on my system and in my room. The packaging could (and should?) be better than the '70s-version; heavier vinyl and sturdier sleeves.
I don't think it was a goal of the people involved in the remasters to make 'soundalikes' of the original vinyl albums, they went for the original look (which was a good idea; the '80s cd's looked terrible!).
I'm really looking forward to these albums (I may be throwing in the Red one for good measure); these two were my first introductions to the Beatles and it will be fun to have them in their new, remastered versions!!

 

If you want a Red or Blue album then pick one up NM on ebay for £6 to £10, there are lots on there. Original all analogue 70's pressing with nice thick vinyl and laminated sleeve. Mr Hoffman recommends the 70's UK pressing very highly.

I'll be looking forward to the proper albums, as good copies of those are hard to find.

 

I'll buy a remastered white album but only if it's mono, numbered, top loading, black inners, uncensored poster printed on the right paper, four photos including a spacer, inner flaps and a wide spine. Oh yeah and the vinyl has to be at least 180 gm, unbanded and pressed in the former USSR or japan.

 

This will be the first time I purchased new vinyl since 1985!

 

Would like fries or an apple turnover with that?

 

Beatles remasters on CD, USB-stick, iTunes and now vinyl: Is this the end of the Beatles remasters campaign or will they start next year to release their remasterd movies on Blu-Ray? Starting with LIB ...

 

Wouldn't the source include the work of the original artists that actually performed the song? Without their work, there would be no sound at all, so I'm guessing 5% may be a little low.

 

So, I guess you're not buying it, then...

 

I was referring to impact on sound quality after the final mix is complete. The contribution of the artist is obviously understood as having an impact. So does the recording and mixing engineer(s), equipment, etc. Again, that's obviously a given.

To address this specific case of the Beatles, if you had three LP versions of the same title:

1. Analog master tape playback -> mastering console -> LP cutting
2. Analog master tape playback -> hires copy -> mastering console -> LP cutting
3. Analog master tape playback -> hires copy -> mastering console -> 24/44.1 copy -> LP cutting

and the mastering and LP cutting moves were identical each time, I highly doubt anyone would be able to hear a difference, except possibly in the case of the 24/44.1 because the filtering needed to elminate everything above 22.05kHz might affect the phase and transient coherency in the upper high frequencies.

I'm sure there are some who claim the Doors box sourced from 24/192 would have been better sounding had it been sourced from the tapes, but really unless one has two LPs that are otherwise identical in terms of mastering, equipment used, cutting procedures, etc., it's impossible to know for sure. Same goes for the 2003 Stones Abkco LPs sourced from DSD. Most people felt those sounded fairly close to original Decca pressings but somewhat dryer, etc. Of course, unless they were mastered and cut with exactly the same equipment and by the same person doing exactly the same mastering moves, who's to say there weren't other factors that made them sound different. Then we have the 2010 Abkco Stones box cut from the same DSD sources, which were converted to PCM 24/192 (and 32/192 in some cases) and cut from that source. Almost everyone I've read or talked to feels these sound slightly better than the 2003 LPs and even closer to the Decca's, with some folks feeling they sound better than the Deccas for some LPs. Would they have sounded better cut from analog? Perhaps but probably not.

Plus then there's the "placebo" or "expectations" factor. If we know something is sourced from analog, will we automatically expect it to sound better and therefore convince ourselves it DOES sound better? I know in the past when people told me I was "imagining" things, I'd get quite peeved. However, through time, I've learned to acknowledge that this is a factor. The mind has a powerful effect on our perceptions. Some folks don't like to admit that and will get upset at the notion, proclaiming that they're entitled to their opinion, lots of experts they've known over the years felt the same way, etc.) but imagining things does happen, like it or not (besides, sometimes said folks have vested interests or ulterior motives).

Bottom line is that we'll just have to wait and see how these Beatles LP reissues end up sounding. As with the Stones box, they may be a nice "one stop shopping" alternative to trolling eBay and record stores in hopes of finding nice copies of the Beatles catalog and sometimes paying premium prices for LPs that may not be as satisfying a listen.

 

Before I get to me question, I'll just come out and say it-this is a stupid question! There I said it, now to the stupid question:
What the hhhhhheck is 'top loader' or 'top load'?? I've seen this over and over on ebay over the last couple of weeks and it makes no sense.
The Beave being stupid.

 

Not so stupid. It means the record jacket opens at the top, instead of the right side as per usual. The original UK White Album opened from the top. Ron

 

Stefan Said:
"Bottom line is that we'll just have to wait and see how these Beatles LP reissues end up sounding. As with the Stones box, they may be a nice "one stop shopping" alternative to trolling eBay and record stores in hopes of finding nice copies of the Beatles catalog and sometimes paying premium prices for LPs that may not be as satisfying a listen."

LoL!!! I LOVE the 'trolling' reference!! Absolutely spot on Stefan!!
Now, the conclusion I came up with for Myself in this whole 'Looking for the Holy Grail of Beatles issues' is this:
Last week I finally got a BC-13 second issue box. I put on Abbey Road first on headphones and was blown away. Even though the pressing itself, on probably 100 gram (or less) vinyl, was nothing 'audiophile' the sound, again on headphones, sounded great. Then I started listening to the lp's over the speakers (Mirage OMD-28's) and on headphones. When I listened to the White Album, I went back and forth from side one to side four....'where the hell is the bass? Especially on Back in the USSR-it's like someone put a filter on it and cut, like %80 of the bass off of it. Then the same experience with the earlier albums. Very 'Clean' sounding, but totally, and I mean (for me at least) totally, lacking in any kind of 'Aural' involvement. Then I put the Yellow Vinyl Re-issue of 'Yellow Submarine' that I also got a couple of weeks ago, (and yes, I know it's 'remixed'-so what? LOL), and listened to 'Hey Buldog', then I listened to 'Hey Buldog' on the BC-13 Yellow Submarine and WHAM-O! There it is again! That 'sterility', that lack of any Aural Involvement that I was talking about earlier. Now, this is where that little light in my head went off!
THIS (lack of aural involvement) is EXACTLY why I, and so many others back in the day, went to Compact Disc. a lot of the old vinyl, for whatever reasons, didn't have that 'fullness' that a good recording ought to have. And I remembered how many times in the past that I had listened to Beatles vinyl and thought, "It sounded much better when I heard this over the radio, the vinyl really lacks something."
Well, it's back to that now. And that's why I will dispose of my BC-13 box as soon as I get the new issues....why? Easy, No matter how many pressings of the White Album I might be able to buy on eBay, and it doesn't matter if their Japanese pressings or DMM pressings or whatever, their all still from the same ol tapes that were put together and then used to press all these records around the world. If one pressing, say from Japan, happens to sound 'warmer' (ie:more bass) it's probably because the vinyl mastering engineer upped the eq in the bass region to get it to sound a little better-to him. The BC-13 is the 'standard' Beatles releases, and again, Abbey Road, on headphones sounded wonderful, but I would tend to believe that it's that way because there was more bass recorded on the last few albums. Also, the AR tracks on '1' Blew away the BC-13 tracks for sheer fidelity, as good as what I originally thought about the BC AR! With what we can now believe is a BRAND NEW SET OF LP MASTER TAPES to cut new vinyl from, I would expect that whatever inconsistencies there were (eq's of individual songs etc,) with pressings from different tapes, safety copies and so forth, would be eliminated. And because Each and Every song was scrutinized to sound as good as it could for the cd box sets, (you can't say that with regular vinyl pressings where the tape is spooled up, azimuth might be checked, and then it just runs till the sides are cut) the NEW LP mastering tapes should sound significantly better than a lot of the older pressings. Just like the new Hey Buldog, BLOWS AWAY (for me) the BC-13 version-there is just no ands ifs or buts about it in my opinion. Also, I just opened the UK vinyl of '1' yesterday, these versions were NOT remixed-and in every case, every song on this vinyl again sonically BLOWS AWAY the same versions on the BC-13 box "IN MY LRoom". There is no two ways on what I heard. So....in conclusion, if newer pressings, newer pressing technologies along with careful treatment of the original tapes, can bring so much of an aural improvement to MY living room, then My bets are on the new vinyl, which I solidified last night by giving my cc to the pre-order on Amazon.de. Sorry if this is long winded but this is an exciting time for me indeed (and hopefully for a lot of you out there!). Going full circle with all these formats and maybe, finally having satisfaction the way I've always thought it should be, brings me a ton of excitement and Joy. And I hope that some of you also get to have some satisfaction with these up coming Beatle Vinyl Re-Issues!!
Party on Garth
Rock on Wayne.......
Waynes world, party time
excellent!!!
The Beave

 

Thank you Very Much Ron!!
Have a great Week!
The Beave

 

Some of us may be waiting for 5.1 versions as well...

 

Problem with your statement is this...

The UK lps (mostly all issues) were made from the masters...that's how they cut them over there...

 

Wasn't the '1' compilation heavily compressed? I know it was on CD -- don't know about the vinyl. Maybe that explains some of the extra fullness you're hearing.