Beatles box set coming Nov. 16

Gary, Purdie was a union musician. There is absolutely no record of his performing on any such session(s) except for the Polydor-era recordings. Even if his claim is true and this session took place, he would have had to of been paid and there would be record of this. Neither Capitol nor Purdie would have risked putting together a non-union session and quite frankly, most people believe Purdy to be a kook after hearing his tale.

 

I am on board with the people who say these will be well received. To many people in the 45 - 55 age group these are the "real" Beatles albums. Last year I made a set of these and gave them to my sister for Christmas. I used the EP collection and various bootlegs,and recreated all the cover art. Several times she has told my wife that this was her favorite gift, and every time I am at her house one or two of these are laying by the CD player. Dexterized or Undexterized, she couldn't care less, but these are the tune stacks and album covers she remembers. I don't think she is alone.

 

So true -- an official announcement would calm a lot of nerves here (if they do this right). If Spizer is involved it's a good sign, because it would mean that Apple has brought in an OUTSIDE authority, which they usually don't do. Ditto for the mastering being done by anyone other than Abbey Road engineers. I think the key for many of us will be including both mixes for each album; releasing 27-minute CDs in a box set would be a disgrace and cause Red Album CD flashbacks. 60 minute CDs that cover every available US mix would earn grateful nods from many of the on-the-fence fans here. If they do this, and the decision is lauded and profitable, it can only mean good things for the UK catalog. I've said this in several other threads -- stop calling for the UK remasters when they aren't ready to do them right. Let them futz around with the Yellow Submarine CD and Let It Be...Naked and the "1" CD and the US LPs; hopefully someday the blind squirrels at EMI/Apple will find the tastiest repackaging nut. Mono and stereo mastered outside of AR would be a very good sign.

One caveat -- unfortunately, it seems like they are already setting themselves up for complaints by not being all-inclusive. Fow what it's worth, I think the "US Versions" reissue program should consist of THREE 5-CD box sets, consisting of:

BOX ONE:
-------
(1) Meet The Beatles
(2) Second Album
(3) A Hard Day's Night
(4) Something New
(5) The Beatles Story

BOX TWO:
--------
(1) The Early Beatles
(2) Beatles '65
(3) Help!
(4) Beatles VI
(5) Rubber Soul (the greatest US version ever!!!)

BOX THREE:
---------
(1) Yesterday and Today (at least this keeps John's Revolver tracks CLOSE to where they belong...)
(2) Revolver (for completion's sake and a few stray mixes; certainly this is the most shameful US hatchet job)
(3) Hey Jude (virtually pointless, but US fans love this album)
(4) Rarities (if they REALLY want to shut collectors up, they will "close the book" on rare mixes and include the hi-hat "All My Loving", the "whispering" "I Feel Fine" and other such curiosities as bonus tracks)
(5) The Beatles Christmas Album (Just do it, Apple. Then you can say it's available, but you won't have to make a big fuss over it and it will be buried in a limited edition box set.)

But wouldn't it just be fitting if the best sounding Beatles CDs turned out to be the "butchered" loved-but-hated US versions? The way I see it, if they can make the US versions DECENT (all mixes, great packaging), it sets them up to do a GREAT job on "The Canon."

This is so, so true -- and it's the part that later-generations fans may not "get." Which is strange for me to say, because I'm only 36, but think about it: I became a Beatles fanatic when I was nine (1977), so I had TEN YEARS with only the US vinyl to love. I don't know where some of you grew up, but I couldn't get import LPs when I was 12. I think I was about 17 when I got the much-beloved "The Beatles Illustrated Record" book and discovered the UK covers and track listings. I went through the usual US Beatles fan stages of grief -- denial, anger, despair, and acceptance -- and snapped up the CDs happily. But I just can't let go of the US vinyl. I don't have original issues, I don't have mono mixes, I don't have mint copies -- I have the same crappy early-1980s pressings I bought with saved allowance and lunch money, and they are precious to me.

Meanwhile, if I show a "Beatles For Sale" Cd to my parents, they would say, "I never had that one." I'd reply, "Sure you did, but it was called 'Beatles '65'." And that would be the end of the conversation. You see, some of those original fans didn't grow up to be lifelong Beatlemaniacs, let alone audiophile-purist lifelong Beatlemaniacs. They may not be diehards, but they are nostalgic, and if you dangle a brand-new, shrink-wrapped "Meet The Beatles" in front of them and their hearts will jump. They don't care about purity, and they don't care about Dave Dexter Jr. But they still look back fondly on the music they loved as kids, and they will snap this up, I promise you. I got my dad a vinyl reissue of a "classic" Mitch Ryder and the Detroit Wheels LP he hadn't listened to in 30 years. I gave him a needle-drop CD of it and framed the LP -- the guy almost cried. I'm telling you, this box is a no-brainer -- the only question is: Does Apple hae the brains to release it?

Sean Murdock

 

I played my self-made needle drop of "The Beatles Second Album" yesterday - I must say it sounds good in the car when played loud. It's probably what they sounded like on AM radio.

"1st Generation" Beatle fans aren't the only ones who grew up with this stuff. From the time I discovered the Beatles (around 1977) until 1989 (when I finally got a CD player), Capitol was all I knew. The sequencing of those Capitol albums is still etched in my brain. Everytime I hear "Till There Was You", I expect "Hold Me Tight", not "Please Mr Postman". Evertime I hear "Eight Days A Week", I expect "You Like Me Too Much", not "Words of Love". Not that I don't like the UK versions... I just happen to like both.


I wonder if they will use the true stereo versions of I Want To Hold Your Hand, This Boy, You Can't Do That, etc... or use fake stereo. Or neither.

I wonder if we will get the unique single vocal version of the mono And I Love her

I wonder why we're not getting the 4 instrumentals from the AHDN soundtrack.

I wonder if the mono Beatles '65 CD will be pressed be just as slow as my vinyl LP. The mono vinyl runs quite a bit slower than the stereo version.

I wonder if this is really for real.

 

Fantastic posts, Sean! You hit the nail on the head several times. I also grew up with the US vinyl for a dozen years (though I did eke out a few import pressings) before getting the CDs, so have fond memories of the original US vinyl...

Personally, I'll get the set whatever tapes they use. If you don't like it, cool, don't get it. And at the risk of gettin' flamed out, whereas I'm not especially fond of many of the US mixes, I actually PREFER the Dextransmogrified "I Feel Fine" to the original UK version...the Beatles play live in Carlsbad Caverns! Woo-hoo!

 

This is off topic - but related...

And many of us believe Carol Kaye is a kook after her claims about playing bass
on all of the great Motown recordings instead of James Jamerson :-(


Somewhere in there - I think there's a shred of truth in both stories.

Most now believe its Purdy who overdubbed drums on the Polydor-era recordings.
If not Purdy, maybe he had a friend who did the overdubbing and thought he
could get away with claiming it was him.

And my guess is Kaye did some work for those snazzy tv special type Motown
albums that clearly didn't use the Funk Brothers (and were probably videotaped
in LA)

 

I have my mid-1970s Meet The Beatles cover framed on the wall in my office. I get goosebumps when I look at it and read the subheading "The First Album by England's Phenomenal Pop Combo" I couldn't even tell you from memory what the covers of the early UK cee-dees look like. I think I'm defintitely in the target audience for this one. The Big Box retailers will be all over this one at Christmastime. I agree with the posts that says that the Spizer involvement/dual versions/outside mastering are all signs of good things to come.

 

Well, guys, let me say this.

Bernard Purdie is a famous, well respected, highly paid Session musician.

There is NO WAY in hell that he "made up this kooky Beatles Story". He has no reason to lie, he doesnt need to make himself look like an important part of music history, session guy, , he is ALREADY an important part of it.

Knowing his standing in the music industry, for me its a forgone conclusion that he indeed DID do these sessions. I feel they were done on the QT, and that perhaps the tapes and session records were all wiped after they decided not to use them
That would make total sense to me.
He could have also done them under another name. I know Glen Campbell did this in the early 60s. Some session records have a "Gene Clemons" on 12 string guitar, thats Glen.

sorry to divert!!

 

It will be interesting to see what happens up here. Meet The Beatles, Beatles Second Album (where did Capitol come up with these titles? ) and The Early Beatles LP were not released by Capitol Canada until mid 1968. Capitol Canada released the real deal up here, With The Beatles with a slightly changed titile, along with the Twist And Shout LP which basically was Please Please Me with two substitutions. Those LPs sound great, straight MONO from the U.K. masters, no futzing.

I remember visiting relatives in Minnesota in mid 1964 and being confused when I went into a record shop and saw Meet The Beatles.

"Hang on, we have an LP like that back home, but it has a black and white photo and the album is called With The Beatles and it has different songs", I told one of my cousins. "Weird!" (I was 8 at the time.)

The Beatles CD box will probably sell well here because it's The Beatles, but those of us Canadians old enough to remember, don't. Meet The Beatles was not released here in 1964. It was an afterthought some 4 and half years later.

 

Thinking about this further - and being swayed by some of the above posts - I'm actually becoming curious to hear these things. I'm not sure I'll shell out the $50+ for it (I'll likely wait and find it used), but I'd certainly like to hear them. Unlike a lot of you, I never really heard (or at least remember) the Dexter-ized versions - the first Beatles album I remember buying were the red and blue collections. On 8-track! I'm not sure what was used on those. After that it was some Japanese LP pressings that sounded superb. I'm also not hung up on the running order of the original American LPs. For the last 25 years or so, it's been the British editions all the way.

So even though the sound quality will likely suck - at least most of us consider the things Dexter did detrimental to the sound - the fact that these are the original, futzed-with U.S. versions is the only thing that, to me, makes them interesting.

 

Hey Mikey. I respect your opinion and who really knows - maybe there was a session - I just don't agree. No one would have destroyed records of such a session. After all, the Beatles in 1964 were considered a "fad" and Capitol had them locked up for another four years. No one was worried about hurting Ringo's feelings or upsetting Brian Epstein because who thought they would even be around when the contract was up.

However, Jim Gordon was another famous, well respected, highly paid session drummer and he took a hammer to his mother. Just because someone is famous or highly respected in their profession does not exempt them from kook status in my book.

 

No worries Dave. I just got "official" word from a contact at EMI in Toronto. The Beatles box set is being released in Canada, also, on November 16, 2004. I will have access to the EMI release sheet(s) as early as this afternoon or on Tuesday. (Monday is Thanksgiving holiday in Canada.)

 

Chris,
Would you please post any details you get about the box set for us?

 

Beatles 1 sold a crapload. Was that what "hardcore fans" were lusting after?

I would argue that nostalgia can be marketed well, and it can be marketed poorly. If someone wants to take advantage of boomers longing for the past...well, go out and buy the Ed Sullivan disc, which (Kent commercials aside) represents *exactly* what you saw that night. And even better, that set appealed to people for *reasons other than nostalgia*. And that stupid it's-getting-recalled-rumor ensured that the producers of the set got to rake in a lot of cash.

Yeah, I get this. I don't understand why this "being there" hinges on such a release, though.

And Sean wrote:

Remember too that "I Feel Fine" and "She's a Woman" are EMI's creations, for the most part. They were reverbed mixes specifically delivered for the US audience. Dexter likely had little to do with them.

And Guydon, thanks for bringing up Jim Gordon. The Purdie "controversy" has always been fairly weak, IMO, and I don't see it passing the giggle test. First, there's the idea that Ringo's drumming is sub-par, which I don't see it all. So you hire a respected jazz session musician to replace his parts? The Atco story doesn't really hold up either, unfortunately, because Purdie hints in that infamous interview that he played drums on She Loves You, a song which assuredly did not exist on the Atco recordings.

 

I think the complaining comes from the fact that Beatles releases are so few and far between--and, generally, marketed to the antithesis of potential marketplace glut--that it feels silly to waste one on something like this. Thus, the reaction is something akin to "we're getting this in lieu of..."

It's actually generally been my position that if you were *going* to release the American albums, this was the way to go, i.e. in a nice, segregated boxed-set that won't pollute the general pool of UK releases (you listening, ABKCO)? But I'm loathe to suffer through the endless marketing and sound-byting that's likely to accompany the release of this title. Remember the "roundtable" discussion that greeted Let It Be Naked?

Between this and the Christmas advertising season, I might not survive with my sanity intact...

 

Absolutely!

 

Dave,

You've got your posts mixed up. My comment was an agreement with Mikey about the sound of the Capitol releases, not Purdie. In fact, Mikey and I agreed long ago (well, two years) that Purdie probably overdubbed some of the early German/Polydor tracks. Mikey says the AFM sheets show Puride's work and that's good enough for me.

GM

 

I've always doubted Pretty Purdie's story. As famous as he was, he definitely was (is) a kooky guy. Have any of you ever heard the story from the DVD of the making of Steely Dan's "Aja" record? Fagen says that Purdie used to come into sessions with two signs, one mounted on either side of his drum kit. The first one said, "You done it." The second one said, "You done hired the hit maker, Bernard 'Pretty' Purdie." I love that story almost as much as I love the "Purdie Shuffle".

But another thing that makes me not believe that he overdubbed drums on top of 21 of Ringo's tracks is that the drums weren't isolated in the multi-tracks of those early records. Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't those early records recorded on only two tracks? So Purdie would have had to record on top of Ringo's tracks (as well as the other instruments in the basic track). So Purdie's playing would have to exist along side Ringo's. Maybe that was the whole point, but I've never heard more than one drummer playing at a time (until later when we start getting into drum overdubs, à la "Strawberry Fields"), so Purdie's tracks never made it to an LP.

Lee

 

Why not listen to The Turtles through the Christmas season?...

Bob

 

Hi Gary. I apologize for not reading your post more carefully.

 

Unless it is changed, retail will be $69.99 for the box.
I'm guessing that just like Star Wars which had the same list, It will be price pointed at $44.99 - $49.99 for the better part of the holiday season. You might even see a couple after Thanksgiving sales where the price is really dropped if only for a few hours.

 

I'm not too excited by this release, but I think the way that they are packaging them (in a box) makes sense.

I'm still not buying it though.

 

Wow --really? I'm surprised I didn't know that. God, those mixes are awful ... did George Martin mix "Everybody's Trying to Be My Baby" at the same session? That one stinks too.

Well, another black mark off Dave Dexter's record.

Sean Murdock

 

Nope, Just the American Albums...Beatles 1 was meant for your generation and beyond

 

...where did you read this? Do you have all the bootleg session tapes available on these? Sorry, you are incorrect on this one...all the additives were DEX.

Three most notable DEX masterpieces are...

You Can't Do That
I Feel Fine
She's A Woman

Honorable mention...Roll Over Beethoven