Barry Diament Remaster of Phil Collins - Hello, I Must Be Going

Uh, okay, that is a little easier!

 

Yeah, I was just thinking of a better way of asking a Seller.

If the disc is 47:48, 49, right in there, then that's the one.

 

Check PM?

 

I can pretty much assure you that the current in-store domestic U.S. Atlantic CD's of the first two Face Value and HIMBG, have Barry's mastering. I went to 2 different shops and picked up 2 of each, and they match my old '80's pressings, and the EAC numbers that we've referenced to.

 

It looks like I have a new Face Value's item to offer to your expertise.
Total time: 47:48.42
Canadian edition, CD 16029 (apparently a first digital edition)
Made by CINRAM
Matrix number P91128CC

The peaks do not match Barry's American version; they are coherent (but not constant) in their variation, down by about 2.0 dB

93.3 / 77.6 / 97.7 / 56.4 / 84.2 / 93.3 / 94.0 / 71.2 / 97.7 / 91.2 / 93.3 / 92.4.

Do you think it is Barry's?
I can post a clip if needed.

 

Sure, post a sample if you like. My guess is Barry's master was just transferred a bit differently in Canada, hence the different peaks.

 

Since the drums' sound seems to have been appreciated a lot in Barry's mastering, here it goes, the drum explosion near the end of In The Air Tonight... (in FLAC)

https://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=19C92ADA1B058CD6

 

Hi Jeff,

If the level is different on the Canadian CD, in my view, all bets are off.
It is no longer my mastering.

Since no one can say exactly how the level was changed (perhaps the pressing plant employee who did it will come forward on this forum ) I will surmise they either changed level digitally, which would throw away some resolution given the tools available when this was done or by going through analog, in which case the signal was subjected to another D-A and A-D conversion (not to mention whatever path and device was used to effect the change).

Either way, while they may have used my work as the source, I do not consider the result my work.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

The difference between the US and Canadian Atlantics is 0.2 dB, a value we have seen crop up many times involving titles by the likes of Genesis, The Who, Pink Floyd, etc. No one seems to have any idea how the change was made, by whom, and under whose authority. Forum member Raf's analyses of Pink Floyd and Genesis discs has shown that, in those cases, the tracks remained in digital sync., indicating that they came from the same digital master. The 0.2 dB level shift seems commonplace with Canadian pressings, but is by no means exclusive to them (the European Shine On box by Pink Floyd, for example is 0.2 dB quieter than the US Columbia version!).

 

If you need a US copy, PM me. They are still in the stores here and I could help out.

 

There has to be reasonable explanations for these types of differences in level. We have no-one here who works in pre-mastering or a CD pressing plant?

 

Hi Black Elk,

It could be the folks at some plants don't want to see the signal ever reach 0 dBFS and are making this level change for that purpose.

Perhaps they have an arbitrary rule about max peak on any master. Perhaps they don't understand the difference between a compressed master pushing full scale and an uncompressed one with only one or two peaks momentarily reaching 0 dBFS.

In any event, a call to the client would be the proper course of action, not making changes just because.

As I said, while they may have used my master as their source, it is no longer my work.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

I guess, then, there is a way to determine if the change of levels in the Canadian pressing did alter Barry's mastering.

It would be to invert-mix a track of Barry's and a Canadian one, level-matched, and see if they cancel out.

Being the owner of a Canadian, I sure would be interested in the results.

Anyone interested to play? PM me!

(I hope Barry does not mind. If he does, well, I'll respect that.)

 

Hi Fred,

Not at all.
I'd be curious as to what you find.

Of course, since the program is the same, the degree of cancellation will be important. I'm not sure exactly what the threshold of cancellation will be to determine whether the conclusion should go one way or the other. (Hence, I'm not sure I'd reach any conclusions based on such a test, unless we're talking better than 90 dB.)

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

I am no expert at those things and understand very little, but i'll do my best.
Hopefully, I'll provide enough information, so the experts can come to an interesting conclusion.

 

anyone?

 

Let me be clear, I'm talking about HELLO I MUST BE GOING. Seems like though this thread has that title, over half of it refers to Face Value.

I know that it has been determined that the currently in print HIMBG cd uses Barry's mastering. Is this true for both Atlantic and Virgin releases? I see one on each label lsited at tower.com, and was just curious if there was any difference?

 

No one has posted data for the Virgin version, so this remains a mystery at this time.

 

Haven't heard the Virgin, but the in print Atlantic is Barry's mastering.

 

I have the very first release of this album in Virgin label, witch was released in the UK by NIMBUS.
Back insert does in have a barcode. NIMBUS ENGLAND around matrix number not Mastered by Nimbus (i have this also, but this must be a later press)



Here is log from EAC:

Code:

Exact Audio Copy V0.99 prebeta 5 from 4. May 2009

EAC extraction logfile from 29. March 2010, 10:46

Phil Collins / Hello, I Must Be Going! (Virgin, CDV2252, NIMBUS)

Used drive  : TSSTcorpCDDVDW TS-L632N   Adapter: 0  ID: 0

Read mode               : Secure
Utilize accurate stream : Yes
Defeat audio cache      : No
Make use of C2 pointers : No

Read offset correction                      : 6
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out          : No
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks   : Yes
Null samples used in CRC calculations       : No
Used interface                              : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000
Gap handling                                : Not detected, thus appended to previous track

Used output format : Internal WAV Routines
Sample format      : 44.100 Hz; 16 Bit; Stereo


TOC of the extracted CD

     Track |   Start  |  Length  | Start sector | End sector 
    ---------------------------------------------------------
        1  |  0:00.62 |  5:06.63 |        62    |    23074   
        2  |  5:07.50 |  5:17.22 |     23075    |    46871   
        3  | 10:24.72 |  5:10.08 |     46872    |    70129   
        4  | 15:35.05 |  4:59.02 |     70130    |    92556   
        5  | 20:34.07 |  2:54.73 |     92557    |   105679   
        6  | 23:29.05 |  4:18.52 |    105680    |   125081   
        7  | 27:47.57 |  5:06.63 |    125082    |   148094   
        8  | 32:54.45 |  4:46.05 |    148095    |   169549   
        9  | 37:40.50 |  5:02.50 |    169550    |   192249   
       10  | 42:43.25 |  3:09.12 |    192250    |   206436   


Track  1

     Filename C:\Users\Compaq Notebook\Desktop\test\Hello\01. Phil Collins - I Don't Care Anymore.wav

     Peak level 79.3 %
     Track quality 99.9 %
     Copy CRC D92CDB20
     Copy OK

Track  2

     Filename C:\Users\Compaq Notebook\Desktop\test\Hello\02. Phil Collins - I Cannot Believe It's True.wav

     Peak level 79.2 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC F5BB99FE
     Copy OK

Track  3

     Filename C:\Users\Compaq Notebook\Desktop\test\Hello\03. Phil Collins - Like China.wav

     Peak level 74.3 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC CC0FD0B3
     Copy OK

Track  4

     Filename C:\Users\Compaq Notebook\Desktop\test\Hello\04. Phil Collins - Do You Know, Do You Care .wav

     Peak level 86.3 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC 1C0065E8
     Copy OK

Track  5

     Filename C:\Users\Compaq Notebook\Desktop\test\Hello\05. Phil Collins - You Can't Hurry Love.wav

     Peak level 64.1 %
     Track quality 99.9 %
     Copy CRC F8149CDC
     Copy OK

Track  6

     Filename C:\Users\Compaq Notebook\Desktop\test\Hello\06. Phil Collins - It Don't Matter to Me.wav

     Peak level 88.1 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC D8540409
     Copy OK

Track  7

     Filename C:\Users\Compaq Notebook\Desktop\test\Hello\07. Phil Collins - Thru These Walls.wav

     Peak level 82.7 %
     Track quality 99.9 %
     Copy CRC F6373249
     Copy OK

Track  8

     Filename C:\Users\Compaq Notebook\Desktop\test\Hello\08. Phil Collins - Don't Let Him Steal Your Heart Away.wav

     Peak level 80.4 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC 2E4B7180
     Copy OK

Track  9

     Filename C:\Users\Compaq Notebook\Desktop\test\Hello\09. Phil Collins - The West Side.wav

     Peak level 94.7 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC EC90FF94
     Copy OK

Track 10

     Filename C:\Users\Compaq Notebook\Desktop\test\Hello\10. Phil Collins - Why Can't It Wait 'Til Morning.wav

     Peak level 49.1 %
     Track quality 100.0 %
     Copy CRC BA4EE991
     Copy OK

No errors occurred

End of status report

I must say that the disc sounds very good!. This mastering was use in later pressings also (Nimbus/Swindon). Unfortunetly this is not Barry's mastering, but sounds very well for my ears.

Here is around ~ minute sampler of track Thrue These Walls (scroll down page and 'click' download and just wait couple of seconds for download)

 

I just got Barry's HIMBG. Kind of disappointed actually. I love the sound quality, but mine also has the lowered left channel volume for the 1st few seconds of the disc, and then someone else mentioned this too:

I can hear a slight dropout on the left channel of Like China. It's from approximately 0:54 to 0:57.

2 defects ...

I wonder if these can be "fixed" with a wav editor.

 

I fixed mine with Sony Soundforge

 

So we definitely KNOW that these two anomalies are present on the Diament mastering...yes?

 

Yes. They were never corrected either, which is ... disheartening.