reminds me of Chicago which tried very hard to distinguish itself from New York through different food preparations. they took a perfectly good pizza and ruined it by putting all the toppings like pepperoni and sausage under the cheese just to be different. also a chicago style hot dog has onions, mustard, relish, tomato and sport peppers, but no ketchup allowed. it tastes great but absurd that we resort to fascism through food. we’re all so broken.
They used to. The Chorus I in the 80's. A popular model among the faithful. However I doubt it has the refinement of the IV series. Klipsch Chorus I For Sale | Audiogon
That's the word. Sterile. I've also heard that in some "high end" systems. They leave me cold and somewhat assaulted. Too shouty for my particular ears. And yet, I bet they measure great. IMO, the only measure worth anything is two eardrums connected to the most amazing discerning bias and error prone computer in the world. Sitting in the small spot one sits. In a room with variable echoes and absorption of various frequencies. The other stuff is academic. Yes one could use two microphones eardrum width apart connected to a computer. But mikes aren't eardrums and computers aren't the human brain. And speaking of rooms and speaker placement in them, add dipoles like Magnepans to the mix. Talk about room effects. The back wall and speaker placement to it is super important. You can throw away any measurements other than maybe how much current to supply them. "Oh no! The off axis frequencies between 3760 and 4320 are 5 lower in DBs" I guess that matters if you listen to the speakers off-axis and really care about those frequencies off axis. In the Magnepan listening room there were maybe four seats that had optimal sound. Did anyone get to sit in those seats?
Every speaker has problems man AN included, buying speakers is about finding the combo of strengths and weaknesses you can personally live with.
True, but some speakers have more issues than others. A good engineered speaker makes placement a lot easier and will work better in more rooms than a poorly engineered speakers. The numbers do mean something. They aren’t there for kicks. Lol And there have been studies , double blind , blah blah blah which have shown that most people like a linear response. It’s not by chance that the most expensive well designed speakers are mostly linear. Magico, Focal, some Harbeth, most Spendor, Perlisten, even a lot of BBC speakers. None and I mean none of those guys/engineers made a speaker without setting quantitative goals and measuring. None. that being said our ear/brain is amazing at blocking out and focusing on what matter, so many times even in a not so good sounding room, our ear/brain will adjust for the abnormalities. I think I mentioned before that I can make adjustments to a crossover that will be super obvious on measurements but will still sound good to the ear. But great measurements can be heard as well. Especially off axis. 80% of the crossover is measurements and 20% tuning by ear. IMHO.
Example you think you aren’t gonna hear that rise from 2k-10khz? or the valley from 300hz- 800hz that both are high in Q? That’s like saying your are gonna set a PEQ at 6khz with 3db and a Q of 1 and not expect to hear a diffence. Say whaaaa? Ever use an EQ? It changes the sound huh? Yeah well that’s one large facet of a speaker measurement and design. One thing is for sure is that is gonna be a bright speaker. That’s what measurements are for. simple. denying the below is like saying a specific gravity does nothing , I just like the pull of the earth. lol Really bad analogy. Sonus Faber Lumina II 2-Way Bookshelf Speaker Review
That is the biggest misconception of speaker and audio design ever. It’s like saying a well engineered car is boring. What exactly does a good speaker entail for you? See? You need to quantify it somehow. Well that’s what audio engineers and speaker engineers do as well. To do that you need some kind of metrics. You don’t just design something from nothing or without some kind of goal in mind. what’s the goal? Make it sound good? Lol Sorry not laughing at you, but could you imagine starting off a speaker project like that? Or making the 5th speaker in your company. Your 3rd model sold really well. Ok, so what made it sell really well besides the marketing ? Are you gonna take that recipe and build from it , to make an even better speaker? Well how are you gonna do that if you can’t quantify what the heck you did with model 3? You can’t. You are stuck taking shots in the dark and soon you have no company cause you are flying blind. It’s not how any sort of engineering works let alone audio. hope that didn’t come off as snarky cause I didn’t mean for it to be. In the end yes we use our ears to choose of course. But speakers and audio gear are made on purpose and with quantitative metrics. cheers
No problem, I know what you are saying, but after the speaker is designed, they listen to it. Then they often have to redesign, because measurements are a crude limited tool. I doubt very much that any speaker designer judges on measurements alone. I keep coming back to Magnepans. Classic example. They measure poorly but sound great. Why? It's because of things like back reflections off the walls help create a large soundstage, the subtleties of which are not measured and in fact may not be able to be. The off axis problems are not so important as all these reflections get added to the mix so those measurements are misleading. The human ear brain combo hears more than is measured or measurable with current technology. A frequency response graph is only a small part of it. Again as someone else said it would be like judging a car by it's specs alone. You can't do it. Or judging the Mona Lisa by saying it's painting of a woman. Maybe she's got that smile because she's been listening to audiophiles debate sound quality vs measurements.
You should hop over to a DIY speaker forum im on , on Facebook. Andrew Jones is on there as well and shares a lot of stuff with the group which is pretty large. Lots of famous speaker designers there. Andrew Jones goes to crazy lengths to measure all the speakers he designs. He as well as others say they do around 80% measurements and then 20% listening and tweaking. Of course they always work within a given budget, when working for companies. freq response is a small part of all the measurements. There is phase, off axis, distortion measurements , impeadance measurements , time measurements. All to make sure they know where it’s best to crossover, how to work with the give cabinet design and drivers chosen. It’s 80% an exact science. Look at what Dynaudio has for measuring their speakers and design. Pretty cool eh? they didn’t spend all that money by chance. that’s to get really good resolution at lower frequencies and other things. Then at the end they tweak to their taste. Why they sound different than others who use similar measuring techniques. enjoy and cheers man! Measures of success: how Jupiter delivers Dynaudio’s trademark quality
Art was older than me - I am surprised he could only come up with 14 (13 + the Harbeth) after many more years in this - AN has a 2dB shelved down treble band - AN has some colouration - AN can't play extremely loud with extremely deep bass - AN can't play in large room where I would rather own Acapella Audio Arts or some custom WE horns that I have heard in Hong Kong - AN can't work as well with very low watt SET amps to give people who love their 1.5 watt SETs a listen at higher volumes. ANs aren't the best-looking speakers - AN have to have the woofers refoamed every 5 to 20 years depending on climate, AN's don't have grill cloths, AN's take a long time to run in, ANs in some rooms can have bass boom especially depending on the materials used in the room wall's construction, AN's don't like SS amplifiers as the engineer in the previous video explained. But then I could come up with a negative traits list for all loudspeakers. In the end - you go with the ones that you feel are the least compromised to YOUR ear and the one that possesses the most strengths to YOUR ear. On the E/SPe HEMP "my favorite of all the newly made loudspeakers I've heard in recent years, flaws and all .../... it does a better job than most of really connecting the listener with the dramatic, intellectual, and emotional intensities captured in every groove. I can't recommend it strongly enough.—Art Dudley And as you move up the AN E line - the fewer the flaws and the greater the strengths. As it is with most speaker companies.
I post my opinions based on what I hear - as they pertain to what I value in the music-listening experience. Peter Breuninger (former Stereophile and TAS and AV Showrooms reviewer) posted a photo once on Facebook of his arm with goosebumps while listening to his AN speakers - and I joked that that picture is all the words needed to be said. That is ultimately the "gold standard" for an audio system to me. Does it totally completely emotionally involve me in the music? AN does that for me - Magico, Wilson, Vandersteen, PMC, Revel, ATC, Genelec, Gethain, and Spendor don't. If they did it for me better I would own them instead. I just explain what my opinion is. I rarely tell people to buy stuff blind because no matter how much someone likes it or how well it is reviewed - that "goosebump factor" is either there or it ain't. PS: If I had to make a list like the one Art alludes to of speakers I think I could live with long-term it might be something like this at various price points: (I am far more a speaker slut than he was apparently) Pure Audio Project Quintett 15 Tannoy Kensington, Tannoy Eaton Tannoy Westminster Tannoy Canterbury JBL Hartstfield Acapella Audio Arts Campanile 2 speakers Acapella Audio Arts High Cellini Acoustic Zen Crescendo II Von Gaylord "Voice of the Legend" Rosso Fiorentino Sierra Rosso Fiorintino Certaldo Usher Be10 Audio Note E Audio Note J Audio Note K Audio Note AX Two Gobel Divin Marquis Lorenzo LM 1 AVID HIFI Reference 2 Teresonioc Ingenium Trenner and Freidl RA Gershman Acoustics Avantgarde Reference 3a Grand Veena Rogers LS 5/9 Cerwin Vegas XLS215 Then a group that I like so far but I would want more time on with different (IMO better gear (read Single Ended amplifiers and NOS digital)) and vinyl. KEF Blade II Wharfedale Elysian 4 Wharfedale Elysian 2 Paradigm Persona 9H Focal Mezzo Utopia MBL 101 E MKII MBL Radialstrahler 126 Studio Electric M4 Soundlab Ultimate 745 Volti Rival YG Acoustics Gallo Reference 3.5 Perfect8 Technologies The Force Sound Kaos PSI Audio A215-M Fyne Audio "Vintage 15" (Though presumably since these are from the principals of Tannoy they will make the above list but I have not had enough times in a quality environment but I liked them plenty FYNE in spite of the rooms) Spatial Audio M3 Silbatone Acoustics Aporia Full Range This is a pretty wide list of different types of speakers and technologies - but like most people - I have to take the speakers I like and then factor in things like "budget (some of these are 1/4 million bucks), speaker size (I can't physically get some of these in my listening space and/or also the massive amplifiers some of them may require), etc. Some are no longer in business, some may no longer have parts for repair available or no dealer representation in the West. The space required in the room for some of them can be massive - even though the speaker is small they need to be 3-4 feet away from all walls. I could live with plenty of speakers - But thinking of Roy Scheider - "you're gonna need a bigger" house. That's part of the appeal of the AN Speakers - they're easy to drive - relatively affordable - full range can be placed close to walls give me the goosebump factor I can play all music genres. I could get a Silbatone Aporia Full Range but they no longer make it - they use old MANGER single drivers - if it breaks can I get another one? The speaker is the size of a bathtub and looks a bit like a bathtub too.
Concise? But moot, pretty much like every other post you make. AN or nothing. Got it. Your opinions matter no more than anyone else's. You know what they say about opinion? They are like buttholes, everyone has one and they all stink. So a pic of goosebumps designated the AN as the gold standard? lol You need deprogrammed EVERYONE wants the same from their hifi. But you can't define the sole source to obtain it for EVERYONE. You do not draw the lines on the path to enjoyment for everyone.
Art wrote reviews. And was not close minded Spendor With work, one can find loudspeakers—virtually always more expensive than the Classic SP100R2—that perform better at one or two tasks: more impact, more tautness, more presence, whatever. But in my experience, it's extremely difficult to find one that does better at all the many things the Classic SP100R2 does so well. And while I wish it could still be had for the 1996 price of $3300/pair, the current price seems quite reasonable for all the SP100R2 has to offer. Sixteen years later, Spendor's flagship Classic model is just as recommendable, if not more so—and is all the more deserving of its status as a reference.
You keep coming back to the fact that you think Magnepans sound great. Fine, but I have owned the LRS+ as well as the 1.7s and didn't care for either; sold both within a month. Could we conclude from this that you like poor measuring speakers and I don't like poor measuring speakers?
