AudioPhiles don't want NEUTRAL, Audiophiles Don't like NEUTRAL (Part Two)

There is a saying that you can lead a horse to water. not only have I lead you to water but I have shoved your head in the trough and all you do is hold your breath and struggle.


Let me be very clear here, I_took_those_quotes_by_JJ_from_the_links. So they are in fact there. That is where I just got them. You are now calling the research of one of the top guys in the business of audio research "opinion." You do this while willfully chosing to not even go so far as to contact the guy and verify the information. This actually goes beyond willfull ignorance.

JJ does not suffer fools well. Perhaps it would be best that you don't contact him if you are going to start out by calling his research just another "opinion." It won't go well.

 

+1. Well said.

 

Gorts, can we please move this to the L&WT section? It doesn't appear to be going anywhere on its own.

 

You did no such thing. Your first link just redirected me to the google homepage, and your second link was to his personal webpage that didn't have the quote you posted, and didn't have any of the words on it that you claimed it did.

Strawman. I have done absolutely no such thing.

Why would I need to contact him? I agree with the facts presented in your quote.

Strawman already addressed above.

 

I've been a mod elsewhere myself. There's ALWAYS a lot more behind a banning, which is why I take statements like that with a huge grain of salt anyway.

 

Suggestion for the Gorts:

Any chance we can get some more Emoticons added?

Banging head against the wall and eating popcorn are two that come readily to mind. Maybe add a "strawman" as well?

 

Scott, your efforts are certainly genuine, but it's pretty obvious that he's interested in arguing for arguments sake. I don't know if it's an age thing, but obviously "winning the argument" is what matters to him. But learning something new? Not so much I'm afraid.

 

This thread should be allowed to survive. I don't know if acdc is a troll having some fun or if his views are genuine. I'd rather discover that he's a troll at this point. It's hard to imagine that sincerity is involved.

I do hope that I'm in the room when (or if) acdc finally hears a genuine hi-end system. That will be a fun time!

 

I agree - unless it gets personal, arguing is fine.

Yeah!

Actually, I was probably kind of similar to him before I heard my first high end system. I don't actually remember all the components, but I do remember that the setup involved a high end turntable: an AudioNote 3: http://www.audionote.co.uk/products/analogue/tt-3_01.shtml

The speakers were B&W 800's, but I can't remember the rest of the system. At that time I knew that vinyl playback was completely inferior to CD

Lets just say that I was, to quote the Brits, gobsmacked when I heard some vinyl playing. It simply wasn't possible for a record to sound this good! I will never forget the impact that had on me!

 

I define it as arguing with you.

Your style is aggressive, questioning to the point of inanity (you often say "that depends on how you define XXX"), and banal. You introduce no new concepts, draw no parallels, give no examples, and refuse to widen your scope.

You often introduce a red herring (such as your recent comment that "some" claimed rumble, wow and flutter were euphonic colourations) and when asked about it, defend it with an unbending passion until we get tired of asking about it.

I wish I knew what you wanted in life - you don't seem to be happy here, but seem to want to argue with every one and make enemies.

 

I've been very fortunate to have witnessed this type of thing many times. I love exposing people to concepts and things they've never heard before, and in many cases never knew existed or thought possible.

Once the light goes on, you can never turn it back off. Many people have told me I was nuts until they experienced for themselves what I was talking about. None of them felt that way after that experience.

These things are sort of like sex. You just can't explain what it feels like, but once somebody experiences it for the first time, they'll always know. I've actually changed the lives of some people as a result of this type of thing and I can't explain how great that makes me feel.

 

You mean like thisHe has painted himself in a corner enough times. STOP FEEDING (to quote SH) it is the only way.

 

Seriously. At this point, if just a few of you put him on your ignore list, MANY threads would be a lot cleaner and more enjoyable. You already know the results of arguing with him. Unless you're enjoying it (and many of us aren't) why not put him out of your view? I'm doing it right now!

Edit: Two minutes later... Wow!!! What a nice thread!

 

You won't see any replies to his posts from me anymore. Like I said in the last thread, HE IS DONE!

 

Took me a minute to find the spot to do it - thanks! - didn't know it was a feature of this forum!

 

As do I. Curiosity. When I discover something new that I hadn't considered, then I am excited. I seek out reliable sources. I learn as much as necessary. I don't run away and hide.

acdc has been invited to meet and greet in a public place to consider scheduling a demo. I wish I had a mega-rig like many here, but I'm confident that mine has reached the level where the light would go on. Member kevintomb will likely be the first member guest later in the Spring, so maybe his views on the experience will encourage others.

 

I disagree with your ad hominem strawman.

 

NONE of us know so much that we can't learn from others. As much as I love sharing what I have discovered with others, learning new things is just as rewarding. What is particularly refreshing is to learn that something I've believed for a long time is wrong, or has become wrong. That has happened to me quite a few times since joining this forum.

Many of us are too proud to admit when we are wrong, or make mistakes, but for me I think it's a positive thing. After all, if one is able to admit a mistake, I think that person actualy becomes more credible. IMO a person who is known to admit mistakes is more likely to be right when they strongly believe they are right, because stubborness and false pride are somewhat taken out of the equation. I like to think that I fall into that category.

In other words, a person who never admits that they are wrong, when evidence is presented to prove that they are wrong, loses a great deal of credibility to me. I'd rather suffer from a few potentially embarrasing public mistakes than from a lack of credibility, which can be very hard to restore. Credibility is far more important to me than my need to always be right.

 

Prediction - nothing will change...

 

Coming from someone who has demonstrated himself to know quite a bit, based on past threads I've read, I appreciate what you said here, Doug, and agree wholeheartedly. There's a vast difference between the Socratic method and stonewalling others with a stubborn insistence on being right. With the former, learning occurs. With the latter, lack of credibility ensues.

Scott Wheeler should be canonized for his ongoing patience and jh901 applauded for offering to open up his home to other audiophiles.

 

Audio appreciation, in particular, really can be a "light turned on" moment, ie. with a hardware upgrade or a new CD / LP that might have a sonic difference from what you had before. Part of me loves that "aha!!" moment, but then part of me (mainly my wallet) misses the blissfull ignorance I was in beforehand.

Btw, having a meet and great is a very nice gesture @jh901. But I know I'm almost afraid to hear a really high-end system as I might get another "aha!!" moment, but then my wallet says "I don't think so".

 

Fixed that for me.

 

Your baseless opinion has been noted. FYI it is based off of false assumptions.

 

That can be tough. For the foreseeable future I'm not upgrading any hardware due to financial constraints. I've heard some pretty good gear and I know what I'm missing, but sometimes you just have to live within your means.

But this also means that I'm not visiting my favourite High Fi shop these days. Too much temptation!

These days I'll put audio money towards music instead. Although I've got to watch that, too!

 

You have been proven many, many times to engage in activities which are trolling behavior. I'll refer you to post 77 and the PM's we exchanged a few months ago.