Any forum members own the Furutech LP demagnetizer?

I don't own the product in question. I DO own a more powerful degausser.

I own a pro broadcast videotape degausser unit. It takes two people to lift it. Weighs in at around 90 pounds, draws around 1800 watts of AC power on a dedicated circuit. Will shut down automatically if it's temp rise in the copper and iron core gets too hot, this takes about 12 minutes to happen, then the running fan cools it for about 2 hours. It's designed to completely erase all residual magnetic levels in high retentivity Digital Betacam, HDCAM, SP Betacam and other difficult to erase types of MAGNETIC media. I will do a demag on a couple of vinyl LP's and listen for any differences before and after and report back here. I feel confident my degausser is likely stronger than the brand in question, and should give a good effect on the vinyl, if any effect can be had.

I will admit I am skeptical in the extreme about this subject. Having a prior thread on this demag LP idea, in which I subjected a vinyl LP to a Neodymium magnet of significant power to a vertically suspended LP on a string line of several feet. So that any tendency to magnetic properties of the vinyl would be manifest by attraction to the strong magnet and it should swing off dead center when contacted by the magnet and drawn away. The result was negative in this experiment. No effect was discernible in the magnetic realm. The LP was evidently as magnetic as air, or glass, or nothing at all, as far as this experiment could detect. A small bit of ordinary 1/4" recording tape was strongly pulled to the magnet, as a "Control" element. The magnetism was fully present and could be detected by the recording tape, but not at all by the vinyl LP.

I encourage members of the Forum to do this experiment themselves. Take a black vinyl LP and suspend it with string, move a magnet close up and touch it slightly, then draw it away slowly. See if it holds-to and follows the magnet or ignores it. Then try something actually magnetic in the same manner. A steel spoon, or something.. Report back to the Forum your results. Thanks. R.E.

If there is any effect in the LP sound after use of the device in question, then I posit, it has nothing to do with magnetism at all. And demagnetizing is what it is supposed to be doing? Anyway, I'll get back to the Forum with my results in testing my pro degauss machine on LP's, if anyone is interested. R.E.

 

May 11, 2007
Source: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center

...Carbon's electrons are arranged in such a way that magnetization has, until recently, seemed theoretically impossible.

Researchers from Lawrence Berkeley Lab's Advanced Light Source (ALS) and the Institute for Experimental Physics have now shown that carbon can be made magnetic at room temperature when a beam of protons is applied to disrupt and align a portion of the electrons, magnetizing tiny, measurable spots within the carbon.

 

Oh man... I wish I lived in Portland...

 

Is there a link to one of these?

 

I would especially like to hear from those who actually paid $1800 for the device if it is worth the price.

 

Uh, am I the only one who realises that the likelihood of a LP experiencing the exact "beam of protons" needed to "align the electrons" in order to magnetise most of the carbon within it is for all intents and purposes, nil?

Then again, who am I to judge what works or the power of the placebo effect? I've seen people ingest water, and then claim that it cured their cancer. Then they die.

What is heartening though is that most of the people claiming that this demagnetiser work actually went in skeptical. For some reason that warms my cockles of my heart as to the validity of this treatment.

 

What I'd be interested in would be how many LPs they have, and exactly how much they are worth!

 

Not sure about Carbon properties and I still say the best way to see is something works is to try it, but as far as Carbon goes, take a look at this.

http://www.vandenhul.com/p_B25.aspx

Now if Carbon can carry a signal?

 

i was wondering how i could stop my records from sticking to the refrigerator.

 

portland..... portugal.... damn, you were just a few letters off!


;o)

 

Actually, I only buy LP's whose free carbon chains are arranged into C60 structures (buckyballs). In this way I can hope to achieve some level of electromagnetism under a static electric charge. Now, I can make full use of demagnetizers to degauss my LP's. Still can't hear any difference though. I have saved a ton of money by taking my LP's down to the scrapyard to stand under the electromagnetic crane, and by switching my car insurance to Geico.

 

Not true! It's shilling. Big difference.

 

No, it isn't. One thing science DOES tell is is how easily we are influenced by factors we don't acknowledge. A recent study even showed how just changing the price tag on wine, causes actual changes in the pleasure centers of the brain in people rating the subjective quality of the wine -- remember, this has zero to do with how the wine actually tastes.

So 'just trying it' is fine for reality-testing, so long as the 'trying' is done in a way to rule out things like the 'price tag' effect (which is a form of expectation bias). And the way to do that, is to use a method that we're not allowed to talk about here.

As far as demagnetizing LPs, the fields involved are so incredibly tiny, I see no plausible explanation for the huge audible effects cited. Perhaps TONEPUB can have his Physics/EEs post here with their explanations. Certainly the manufacterer offers no credible explanation or demonstration on their site.

And btw, the 'scientists' of Columbus' day knew the world was not flat (the Greeks figured that out ages before 1492). The idea of a flat world came from mythology...which is probably where 'demagnetized LPs' belong too.

 

VSAC Furtech Demo

I am signed up for VSAC and can't wait to check this out! I live for this kind of audio insanity. Thanks for being brave enough to give you own opinion on this Jeff. I am glad the forum trolls have not driven you away. Peace. Robert

 

I guess that's why copper bracelets for arthritis still sell -- as do books of 'lucky numbers' for playing the lottery.

Would you say they work, on this basis? (and they cost a LOT less than $1800)

I guess what I'm saying is: does careful determination that a 'treatment' actually does what it claims, matter to you? Are groups that exist for protection of consumers against fraudulent products necessary?

And btw, we've all got lots of carbon in our bodies. Should we be demagnetized too, before listening?

 

So sorry. I stand corrected!

 

Well as TommyTunes pointed out, effects on various tweaks can indeed be audible but the science to fully explain make take some time.

This was certainly the case with jitter on CD transports. Audiophiles knew transports sounded different but it took research to pinpoint the precise jitter effects.

The conclusion is keep an open mind and listen for yourself.

 

Aside from the ad hominem attack, I'd say so much for the message that we shouldn't be bashful about filling out our equipment profiles because this is a snobbery-free forum.

 

And then an hour and ten minutes later you answered your own question. You do. One could call that a set-up, but that would be wrong...

 

Well, Kudesai, you may not be an electrical engineer, but I bet you once stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.

 

As I have pointed out , what science has already 'explained', is that we can fool ourselves into believing an audible difference exists, where none does. This is exactly why science uses the methods its does, to 'fully explain' something's audibility. As best I can tell so far, neither TommyTunes nor anyone else here touting the demag effect, has use the methods of science to explain what they heard.

Jitter was known about by scientists and engineers decades before any audiophiles ever glommed onto it. The term predates consumer digital audio, coming from the world of signal processing. Nor have the effects audiophiles claim to be caused by jitter -- and they rely on that one a lot -- been routinely verified as being caused by jitter by careful testing. Indeed, the threshold of audibility of jitter is itself not at all simple to determine, nor is it easy to measure properly, yet audiophiles are quick to blame 'jitter' for all manner of supposed effects.

So, have you any other examples besides 'jitter'?

The conclusion is :be skeptical of claims where there is NO science to support them, and routine biasing effects have not been accounted for in the subjective evaluation.

Especially when those 'claims' cost kilobucks.

 

Maybe the Furutech is emitting a beam that causes people to have delusions and a side effect is better auditory responses.

Probably another Russian plot to cause people to run out and spend money they don't have.

Or maybe it's a Chinese plot.

Or maybe Osama Bin Laden?

In any case, I'm going to dig out my trusty R 2 R demagnetizer.

 

Tell us what you find. I have one of those R 2 R demagnetizers. Maybe I should try it too.

Can the scientists on this forum tell us how we can magnetize an LP. We can do the experiment in reverse. Get an LP, magnetize it and listen to see if it is worse. We can later demagnetize it and see if we get back to the original state. Just a thought.

 

By that rationale, no one should drive a car until they understand how an internal combustion engine works.

 

The correct automotive analogy would perhaps involve those oil additives containing Teflon. The ones marketed through infomercials. Miracle lubricants the oil industry and Dupont Chemical are trying to keep you from putting in your car. Or the tablets that are supposed to give you such good mileage that the oil companies are trying to suppress them.