An almost perfect Reissue that got Messed up: Buffalo Springfield

My beef with the box is that it doesn't have the killer 45 alternate version of "Mr. Soul". The acetate they do inlude is interesting but the single mix is arguably better than both the mono and stereo LP versions.
That quibble aside, I actually like the set quite a bit.

Aaron

 

you all know they were actually talking reunion a few years ago! all six members were going to be in on it. there were some problems with getting dewey palmer out of canada (drugs).

to make a long story short, neil nixed the whole thing.

renny

p.s. there really is absolutely no excuse for leaving "carefree coountry day" and "in the hour of not quite rain" off of the box. the long "bluebird" i understand, young nor stills wanted it.

 

Bruce Palmer and Dewey Martin!
JG

 

I know the record companies do this to get us to re-buy the same tracks twice. It is a rip-off.

But the Buffalo Springfield box took this to a new level of sliminess. It's one thing to repeat tracks from another release. Some purchasers will be re-buying the same tracks for a second time. It's another thing to repeat the same tracks from the very same release. All purchasers will be buying the same tracks twice.

 

The box set was to good to pass up and lets face it, until Neil passes on, we will not get what we want but..what Neil thinks is the best version. I do not mind that because there are so many places to fill in the gaps. I just made a CDR of the missing tracks and tossed it into the box set. That makes me happy.

 

They have had a few reunions. They get together and play some of the old stuff and talk plans but..once again, Neil says yes then drops out. I know Neil records everything and i would kill to hear some of these jam sessions....

 

bruce palmer died in september of 2004.

i have no clue as to what dewey martin is doing.

renny

 

Originally Posted by thechief123

The 9 minute "Bluebird" should've been there just for the sake of completion, if for nothing else.

You probably love "The Fool" so I could understand your angst for no extended "Bluebird", but I've found sometimes the edited versions of releases really hit home in a way that the extended versions just fall a little too flat...they just sometimes tend to dray on a bit muchly, while the edit just socks it to ya'...nomatter how good the musicianship...

justathought...

 

Just to be clear, technically speaking, the "short" version is not the edit -- the long version is. The original meticulously multi-tracked recording had an edit from a live-to-tape jam tacked onto the end of the finished studio version. The sonics are totally different (2-track vs 8-track?) , and the extension does not reflect any type of studio arrangement, but is strictly an after-the fact head arrangement that seeks to capture some of the excitement of the live springfield. And while the extension may have in fact been recorded in the studio, it's not like the long version is the original that was distilled down for the commercial release.

The extension is clearly not on par with the highly-arranged studio recording that is the body of the song.

Which is not to say that it didn't belong on the Box Set, which could have easily included ALL commercially-released BS tracks. Box Set missed being the truly definitive collection by a hair; it should have been the last word. Again, having said all that, it remains one of the best retrospectives out there, and should be obtained despite NY's misguided and myopic decision-making. (I've loved the Springfield since the late 60's, but that's just my 2 cents)

 

I'm not going to say its a rip off, if only because for the money, there was more than enough value in that box. I think it was a bad choice for sure. I suppose what Neil was going for was to present the albums as albums in their original state, plus to present the songs in context of when they were recorded as well as what else was being recorded. The "context" issue has come up in his occasional comments about the Archives too. At any rate, I get the point, but it wasn't necessary to me. Just put out the individual cds and have the box be what it is - but keep it separate. Makes sense to me, but not Neil. Still, I don't think it was a rip off.

 

I don't own the double Buffalo Springfield LP on which the extended "Bluebird" appeared and haven't heard it for years. But is it not true that this differs in many ways from the track that was played all over L.A. radio when the Springfield were still together?

I had a bootleg that has this version before the LP was released (still have it), and I remember being surprised at the differences when I heard the LP version. I don't recall now if it was just a matter of different mixing/editing, or whether some of the live section was entirely different.

 

That was the 45, the B-side of the version of Mr. Soul that everyone here is complaining about not being on the box. It is a 1:59 mono edit of the regular LP version.

 

No, I'm talking about two different versions of the LONG (9 minutes plus) "Bluebird" -- the one on the Buffalo Springfield two-LP set and the long version that was very widely played on L.A. radio back when the band was still together. It's this latter version that I have on a bootleg -- probably recorded right off the radio -- and as I said, my memory is that it differs fairly significantly from the version that's on the two-LP set.

I'm familiar with the "Mr. Soul"/"Bluebird" single...I bought it when it came out, and I agree they should have put the A-side on the box set, as it's an entirely different performance from the Again version.

 

Yes, there are TWO versions of the long version of "Bluebird". I think only the jam at the end is different though. I have both but haven't listened to the rarer one in a while.

 

Both extended versions appear on a recent (post-Box Set) "collection" Sell Out. Per the liner notes:

...the "9-minute version" [actually 8:59] of Bluebird that had been smuggled out of Stephen Stills home by an "over-anxious" Southern California DJ and subsequently played over the air, repeatedly, to great acclaim throughout the L.A. area! Stills hated it and did not want it released in any form but it DID wind up on vinyl for a very short time.

...an ALTERNATE take, of that version, [9:35] that Neil Young laid guitar overdubs on at a later date for possible release. The source is a VERY scratchy acetate ... - but there is no other sound source available.

 

OK, then what you're saying is that the version on the double Buffalo Springfield LP is exactly what was heard on LA radio?

Because from your description, it's the second version with the Neil overdubs that's on the bootleg that I have. The overdubs come prior to the live segment, while Stills is still jamming in the section that follows "Do you think she loves me/Do you think at all."

If these overdubs aren't on the LP version, then that would explain why I remember it being significantly different from the boot version.

 

The "9 Minute Version" that appeared on the 1973 Buffalo Springfield double lp does not have the overdubs. This must be what ronbow is describing as having been taken from Stills' house and then played on radio. Somehow it also ended up on that album.

The 9:35 version I have is a scratchy acetate, with Neil's overdubs, and not released anywhere to my knowledge.

I think these are one and the same take. They have the same guitar parts and vocals usually, but the mixing is different. Also, the extended version goes on for longer and ends with Stills singing "take it home", whereas the common 9 minute version fades out. I think both "versions" were b00ted though, although I never heard the 9:35 version until the "Sell Out" release. The famous "Springfield Roots" title had the version from the Buffalo Springfield double album, IIRC.

 

No...Springfield Roots was in fact the bootleg I was talking about, and it had the version with the Neil overdubs and the "take it home" from Stills at the end -- not the version that was on the double album.

Actually, my roommate in college had this boot, and I made a reel dub of it, which I still have. Following the long "Bluebird" on this album was a Poco non-LP single, "Hard Times" and "My Kind of Love" -- although it was the stereo single and they only got one channel of it! I also remember there being a Stills solo demo of "49 Reasons" (no "Bye-byes"!) with a lot of backwards guitar.

 

I think that the "scratchy acetate" long version of Bluebird has a unique beginning as well as the Neil overdubs on the jam portion. The long version on the '73 LP has the long jam section tacked on to the end of the LP version..

I read a Neil interview around the time the Buffalo box was being put together and said in regards to the live Buffalo something like "what do you do when you have a really bad quality live tape but it happens the best thing you ever did - do you put it out because it represents the peak of the band or not release it because the quality is horrible?" I guess he decided not to release it as there is no live stuff on the box...

Speaking of unreleased Buffalo Springfield there a ferocious alt take of My Kind of Love doing the rounds that should of made the box.

 

Mike, you're right. I gave a quick listen to the 2 extended edits this morning; the longer one (9:39 on my player) does indeed have the NY overdubs throughout both the LP-segment and the tacked-on live segment. It starts on a tape defect; first musical differences occur about 1:20 into it, after "she got soul" and before "Do you think she loves you ...". There is a different ascending guitar line, on top of what is either an alternate mix, or perhaps even an underdub. Then we hear the unadulterated eastern-tinged NY noodling for most of the balance of the studio / multi-tracked segment, before the live segment. The live segment on this extended version does continue for another 25 seconds or so past the commercially-released extended version, and you can hear crowd noises at the end. The crowd sounds like a small crowd at a performance (altho it's possible it could be studio hanger-onners).

To be honest, this is the most examination I have afforded either of the long versions; the "original" 9-minute version struck me as totally bogus when it first appeared on the 2-LP set in the early 70's, and I never acquired that set. It was a jarring segue to a live recording that was at total odds with the precisely-arranged and extensively-overdubbed studio version, and just never seemed right. ("It's just wrong.") Given all the other live material around, it ony marginally merits consideration as a core component of the springfield canon, altho I suppose the fact that it was once commercially released should warrant its inclusion on a comprehensive complilation.

Chris - can you provide any more details here?

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/08...5047-8311115?_encoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=283155

Is this the updated version of John Einarson's Buffalo Springfield book?

Ron, I don't have any details on the My Kind of Love outtake. It's much more rockin' than the version on the box but the sound isn't that great. Still an essential outtake IMO. It's on a fan compiled disc called "the missing herd"..

 

Here's what I got: A take of "My Kind Of Love" was performed during the Buffalo Springfield sessions in August-Sept 1966. It was slated for inclusion on the album, but rejected in favor of Neil's "Flying On The Ground Is Wrong". That is the version we've had all this time on the Stampede b00ts. The take on the Box Set is listed as being from January 9, 1967. This places it in the same time frame as the other Buffalo Springfield Again tracks. This info comes from pg 120 in the book Crosby, Stills, Nash and sometimes Young Vol. 3, 2002, by Verbeke, Lucarelli, Frollano, van Diggelen.

Regarding the 9:35 "Bluebird", I thought the audience sounds at the end were very similar to those in "Broken Arrow". I assumed they were flown in. Is the consensus here that the jamming at the end is actually from a concert? I thought it sounded like studio jamming. Also, thanks for setting me straight on the version included on "Springfield Roots". I didn't remember correctly.

 

That's an interesting question. In listening to this "Bluebird" for the first time in a while today, I was struck by a couple of things in the jam section.

The main question being Who's playing what? Neil, of course, is very easy to pick out. But there's an sinewy electric guitar line that runs through much of it...nothing very fancy, even a bit ham-handed in spots. Then you have an acoustic part. These two sound as if they must be Furay and Stills respectively. Which raises more questions...this is surely more "lead guitar" (albeit simple) then I realized Furay ever played...it's not chords at all, just some noodling around D. And secondly, if this is truly a live track, how is it that Stills' acoustic is heard so clearly?

So your theory that this is actually a studio jam may well be correct.


A related note...the jam part that follows "Do you think at all" on the original recording is absolutely wonderful, some of my favorite Stills guitar work ever. And though I love Neil's playing too, the stuff he overdubbed on top of this on the boot works in only about one place.The rest of the time, it's not complementary at all. So they were right to leave it off.

The question I have is, what kind of guitar is Stills playing here? It sounds like an acoustic, and yet listen on the 9:35 bootleg version, at the point when this section comes to a halt in preparation for the slow riff that Stills plays just prior to strumming that gorgeous Cmaj7add9 chord (x32000 in Drop D tuning). You hear a decidedly electric guitar ringing out that is then choked as the riff is played. It's obviously the same passage as the official release, but that had this lead-in noise edited out.

Any theories? Could Stills really make his Gretch or whatever it was he was playing then sound that "acoustic"?

 

I doubt it. I think that droning sound is Neil's guitar popping up just barely in mix. I hear that same guitar in all three versions though - right before the little riff and Cmaj7+9 chord. I never thought much about the jamming section to be honest. I can't remember when the song was recorded (and I don't have my book handy right now), but as of early '67, I don't Stills had developed into much of a lead guitarist. My guess about the jam is that Stills played acoustic along with Dewey and Bruce. The acoustic sounds exactly like Stills. Neil may have jammed along or overdubbed. Then Stills overdubbed his electric part - which really isn't much more than very simply lead lines. I'm going to guess that Furay isn't playing.

I don't think Stills really became a good lead player until 1968-69. By the time you hear those lines in "Wooden Ships", he had done a lot of practicing and hanging out with Hendrix. The stuff he played on Supersession was transisitional - although his leads on "It Takes A Lot To Laugh, It Takes A Train To Cry" are super.

 

Buffalo Springfield - Sell Out - 2002, on the Aurora Borealis label, according to AllMusic.com. Is this a legit release or a bootleg?