New cart for Pro-ject Debut III

Hi there

Can anyone recommend a cart and stylus which will minimise high end distortion / sibilance? I find this turntable sounds great at the beginning of each side, but the high end can go to pot towards the end of a side (particularly on early Beatles albums, with their very trebly vocals and cymbals).

I have spent a lot of time checking the alignment, azimuth, anti-skate, and tracking force (using a Shure gauge for the latter), and I don't think that the problem lies with any of these. And the vinyl is not worn - I have a NM Beatles blue box, and all the albums from Please Please Me through to Help! become almost unlistenable to me towards the end of each side.

 

Are you using the OM 5e cart that came with the Debut III? I had it for a while and thought it sounded awful- tinny, harsh, and very revealing of surface noise. I also had a problem with inner groove distortion. I upgraded to the OM-10 which wasn't much better, then I went on to the OM-20 which was good but still niosy and lean on the bass. I now own the Goldring 1042 which is absolutely fantastic- it does nearly everything right. It retails for about 135 pounds but is well worth the price. Failing that, the the Audio Technica AT440MLa can be purchased from http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=LG&Product_Code=ATC05&Category_Code=A3. It is an excellent cart for the money.

 

I have a Goldring GR-1.2 that came from the factory with a Goldring Elektra cartridge which though sounded quite good didn't convinced me so I upgraded it a couple of months ago with a Denon DL-160 cartridge. It's a high output MC one, it needs a little time and use to settle down to sound as it's meant to sound, now I can tell you it's absolutely amazing for the price. Excellent tracking, balanced sound, it extracts every little information that's on the record grooves.
Just in case it helps, I bought mine from ebay.

 

Yes, I'm using the OM5E. Glad to hear it's not just me! Thanks for the advice - will check out those carts and make a decision after Christmas (hopefully these things will be cheaper then!).

By the way, I take it your scratching noises on loud cut vinyl went away once you got the Goldring?

 

90% of it yes. The remaining noise is most likely damage caused by the OM-10 mistracking. I hate the OM series! That Goldring was a welcome change- it sounds so much smoother than the than the OM's with more base and much better tonality. It tracks loads better to. Even the OM-20 tracked like a 6 inch nail! Regarding the other cart I mentioned, the At400MLa, if you choose to buy it, make sure you buy the MLa NOT the ML- it supposedly has bucket loads of bass and treble with poor midrange. Both the ML and the MLa are excellent trackers and so is the Goldring 1042 (unlike the OM's!).

 

The 1042 Goldring is an ace cart. But bang-for-bucks the AT440MLa is simply the best. It'll track anything you throw at it, right up to the label!

 

Thanks for the thread and the tips. I also would like to get a new cart for my Debut III. That AT440MLa looks reasonable for a poor boy like me.

 

I was just looking at specs and the AT440MLa is 6.5 grams. Would I need a heavier counter weight? It says in the Debut manual that a heavier counter weight is an available accessory for carts over 6grams. Anyone know where I can buy one?

 

I have the MLa...fantastic cartridge, and not an arm and a leg for it either. I can't say enough good things about it.

-MCD

 

Wow, they're just down the street from me in Henderson, NV...I bought my AT440MLa from amazon.com. For $15 more...damnit. lol.

-MCD

 

I know it says so in the manual, but I don't understand why you would need a different counterweight. As long as you can move the existing counterweight to exert the required downforce, why should there be a problem?

 

Sorry to sort of threadjack, but I'm toying with the idea of a new cartridge for my Pro-Ject 1.2 Xpression, which still has the stock OM10. Either that, or waiting for a bit and changing to a new turntable, probably a Rega P3. Is sticking a £150/£200 cart on the Project a waste compared to forking out £250/£300 for the Rega?

 

That's exactly what I was thinking. But that stupid comment in the manual has me worried. I went ahead and ordered the cartridge yesterday. I will report back on the results when I get it in the mail and installed.

 

The stock counterweight is designed to be more of a match for lower mass cartridges. If you try to put a heavier cartridge on there, you will find it simply isn't heavy enough - if will fall off the back of the arm before it balances the cartridge. Similarly, using a heavier counterweight with a lower mass cartridge makes balancing far too fiddly and delicate (maybe impossible if the cartridge is really light); hence the availablility of different weights.

 

I agree. I think the stock ortofon is 5 grams and the AT440MLa is 6.5 grams. I think the stock counter weight should be sufficient in this case because the counter weight is not close to falling off at 5 grams. Hopefully 6.5 isn't too much. Now if one wanted to use a cart that was 10 grams you would be screwed for sure. Also I can't even find where to buy the bigger counter weight even if I wanted to. If worse comes to worse I will wrap the counter weight with some metal tape I suppose.

 

I have the Debut III and have just replaced my Ortofon OM-20 with the Goldring 1042. The om-20 is 5 grammes and the Goldring is 6.3 and there was abslutely NO way the counterweight would balance the arm. You NEED a heavier counterweight or it simply wont work. It never occured to me when I ordered the Goldring, so you can imagine how dissapointed I was.....

You can get the counterweight here, make sure you select the third option on the bottom of the page or you will be ordering the weight you already have. http://www.needles-and-spins.co.uk/pd_counterweight.cfm

 

Crapola, looks like they don't ship to the US.

 

Man I'm gonna have to get medievil on that counterweight. Vinophile can you do me a favor and tell me how much the heavier counterweight is? Err what is weighs..?

 

Arrgh...I mean I need what it weighs. I can't type today.

 

All I know for sure is that the heavier weight is for 6-9g carts- I'm not sure exactly how heavy the weight is. I think the packaging said it 75g but as I said, I dont know for sure. It is essential though- I couldn't get the tracking force set at all with the supplied weight when I bought my Goldring 1042. I'll see if I can find a US site that sells it.

 

Thanks for the help. I weighed my regular counterweight with my small postal scale. I'm not sure how accurate it is. It came to 2.2 ounces which converts to about 62.37 grams.

 

I've just dug the packaging out of our recycling bin- the 6-9g counterweight weighs 75 grammes.

 

Sweet thank you. Much appreciated.

 

My new cart should arrive in the next few hours. I found a metal washer that fits nicely on the center nub on the back of the counterweight. With the washer the weight come to about 76 grams, if my scale is correct.

BTW which way are you guys putting the counterweight on? Plastic dial towards the front or on the back? I put it towards the front since the crummy picture in the manual makes it look that way, but since the manual is full of errors I'm not sure.

 

It worked. I'm listening to a ZZ Top's Eliminator as we speak.