Pink Floyd's "Wish You Were Here" - list of best cd versions? *

....can someone send a list? - I'm not keen on the UK 'digital remaster', thanks ya'll.

 

Re: PF "Wish You Were Here" - list of best cd versions?

Yeah its very short-

35DP-4

here's a thread on the subject- http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=87670

 

Re: PF "Wish You Were Here" - list of best cd versions?

People seem to really like the MasterSound Gold disc also for a slightly more available and affordable variation.

I havn't heard the 2-track but the Mastersound sounds pretty darn good.

 

Re: PF "Wish You Were Here" - list of best cd versions?

Haven't heard the 2-track, but I have the Japanese MasterSound. IMO it has excellent detail, but sounds a bit sharp.
Still, it's awesome and very affordable, compared to the 2-track

 

Re: PF "Wish You Were Here" - list of best cd versions?

Agreed-I think its a bigger jump/greater improvement over the standard disc. The difference between the 2 track and the mastersound is much less and is a harder call.

Yep-Thats how it sounds to me, a little trebley and a little over bright. Also it gets into the red on the volume level unlike the the 2 track which is quiet

 

Re: PF "Wish You Were Here" - list of best cd versions?

I agree with Jerry. We are fortunate to have many good-sounding versions. If I could not find the rare two-track version, I'd go with the MasterSound gold disc or the current remaster.

 

I'm currently comparing the two. It seems the Mastersound version has a lot less annoying hiss than the 2 track 35DP-4 version. Someone please explain to me how the 2 track version is better?

 

I'm happy with the Mastersound Gold pressing (long box)...

 

Less Bright and recorded at a lower level, so there is more headroom. On Have a Cigar-the mastersound peaks into the red on a VU meter (suggesting some distortion). This is not the case with the 2 track which is composed and smooth all the way through. In simple terms side by side, The Mastersound is louder and brighter which means some EQing is at work, whereas the 2 track is ....well..a flat transfer of the master tape so you can't get closer than that

 

Wrong. There is no digital compression on the Gold Mastersound WYWH. In fact *none* of the versions of WYWH are really compressed/maximized/loud. There are DCC's that are just as loud as the Mastersound.

 

Sigh. Just becasue the Mastersound is brighter does not mean there is "some EQ at work". How do you know the 2 track wasn't mastered from an LP copy tape that has less high end than the master? Maybe the guy that mastered the 2 track rolled off the treble?

The fact that the 2 track is quieter than the Mastersound is not in and of it self a good thing. As I mentioned earlier there are DCC's that are as "loud" as the Mastersound..

 

here is a quote from Steve Hoffman -currently a link on the other thread where you posted, and Steve is talking about another album here, but his point is that the early CDs were not mastered.
This album is essentially UNMASTERED. Just like all of the silver MoFi CD's and many of the MoFi UDI's, WEA "Targets", JPN ABBEY ROAD, JPN Beach Boys PASTMASTERS and other early CD's that we pay crazy money for. Unmastered, let the chips fall where they may.

As this is, without ANY doubt, the 4th Compact Disc pressed, I think its pretty safe to assume that it falls in this category.

I don't especially view mastering as a Black Art. Its fairly basic stuff that we have all done using tape recorders in the past. But if you Peak into the red on the recorders VU meter, then you can expect some distortion ( although Chrome tape manufacturers suggested you could get away with some red area recording). I don't have a problem with some volume on discs and The Mastersound is very very good and well worth $50.

The question asked was "Explain to me why the 2 track version is better" which I answered. And yes aren't I lucky to have both versions to compare?-but so does the person asking the question. Now if he doesn't hear it, thats not my fault or anyone elses. But I answered the question as best as I could. There may be more to it, but I don't expect any knows the answer unless they were in the mastering session, so any speculation is pointless.

 

Folks, let's not theorize on the mastering choices that were made. It's fine to comment on what you hear (loud, bright, etc.). However, to correlate what you hear to mastering choices (jacked up EQ, compression) may be nothing more than a guess. Just stick to what you hear.

Also, no attacking other members.

 

I don't doubt that it's "unmastered" but if they were working from a tape with relatively little high end to begin with then then versions from the master tape will sound brighter. My point is we don't really know for sure. I'm not saying your wrong, just pointing out other possibilities..

 

Chris

I know what you are saying and I know, you know, what you are talking about.

I am not one of those people who want to yell "Look at Me I have 35DP-4 aren't I the business?". If this was from a poor copy/re-dubbed for EQ tape I doubt, seriously doubt, that this pressing would have such a legendary reputation. Its good but is it $250 good?..I don't know( nor do I care how much its worth).

The mastersound blew my socks off because it was twice as good as the version I had. The 35DP-4 is maybe 20% better than the mastersound(IMHO) but its not as significantly better and if people hear it or some people don't, well thats thier problem. In other posts on the subject someone said they preferred the Mastersound using their Marantz receiver-great! They speculated that all it meant was that the Marantz preferred the Mastersound.

I suspect that at the beginning of CD manufacture, the record companies did pull out the stops to make these discs as sonically pleasing as they could and thats why some of these things are desirable and expensive. I am aware that some early presses did use poor tapes but seriously, the first Sony japanese presses did not.

 

We have an infrequent poster here on the forums who was in the music industry back then, and he (?) has posted several times that many of these early Sony Japanese CDs were very poorly done. He claims he was part of the reason many were quickly redone, including the infamous 35DP-4 PF.

I was definitely buying CDs back in those days, and I can assure you, I never thought Japanese Sony CDs were "better" than WG CDs. In fact, for a while, I felt that most Japanese CDs were a lot brighter than their WG counterpart. I used to shop for "Made in West Germany" on the longbox. I clearly remember quite a few harsh-sounding Sony CDs, like Michael Jackson's "Thriller" and Bruce Springsteen's "Born In The USA".

Kevin

 

Ok I give in of course you are all correct

Who wants to buy a 35DP-4 2Track?-you won't like it because the tacks aren't indexed properly and it was mastered from some dubbed vinyl copy tape? I paid $200 for it but you can have it for $10. Apparently it was thought to be the best version of this recording but members of the Steve Hoffman Forum tell me its just a very poor generation tape with treble rolled off and is , like all the other japanese first presses utterly terrible.

(PS-please don't PM me about this..its called humour)

 

I've read many times that the early Japanese pressings from CBS/Sony back in the day were not good and that CBS/Sony had an exchange program, where they replaced the Japanese pressings with remastered U.S. pressings. Perhaps that accounts for the rarity of many of the Japan-for-U.S. CBS/Sony discs. Regardless, I have many of these discs, and I think a lot of them sound very good. Thriller does not sound harsh to me.

There are some stinkers among the original Japan-for-U.S. CBS/Sony discs, but I strongly object to the two-track Wish You Were Here being one of them. I greatly prefer it to the later five-track mastering.

 

Sorry as a New Yorker living in the south, I couldn't help myself "Cheers"

 

What was not good about those early CBS/Sony pressings? The sound/mastering, the quality of the pressing, or? I didn't start buying CDs until 1995, and I'm not familiar with any problems those pressings might have.

I had the 2-track Japan-for U.S.A. pressing of Wish You Were Here and now have the Japanese 35DP 4 pressing, and to my ears they both sound great. I also have a few Miles Davis 35DP pressings and the sound on those is OK, too.

 

Now first off, let me assure you... I know humour.

I want to make it clear that I am not saying that the two-track 35DP-4 CD of Wish You Were Here is a "bad" mastering job. Quite the contrary. I owned this version for many, many years and recently reacquired it. It's as I remember. Very nice sounding but not "miles ahead" of the Mastersound, or, truth to be told, even the current CD. Better, yes, but not "this makes those other CDs sound like garbage" better.

I was buying CDs back in the early 80s. I was buying CDs the day they were issued. I remember pre-ordering the first 4 Beatles CDs and waiting in line for the store to open so I could get them first. Unfortunately, in the early 90s, I was buying almost 100% Jazz and not listening to my rock CDs. I decided (in hindsight, stupidly) that I would probably never listen to these much any more and so I probably sold 200-300 of these first pressing rock CDs to friends at work. One of them was probably the PF 2 track altough I seem to recall loaning that to someone and not getting it back.

I wish I could recall all of the "duds" that I re-bought from a different country to see if they improved. I still have some that I kept because I liked them like PF's The Wall from Japan, all the U2s, many of The Police CDs from Japan and all of the Beatles discs, including a black triangle.

In general, CBS/Sony CDs were not ones I kept. I can't even recall any of them as "Wow" with the exception of the 2 track WYWH. I probably only have a few of those early Sony CDs left in my possession and most are not early-80s titles but later 80s titles. I seem to recall dumping several Billy Joel discs, quite a few Bob Dylan discs, most Simon & Garfunkel discs. Springsteen's early stuff was painful to listen to. What I remember most about them is the high end. Many of them had trebly sound. Maybe it was the primitive CD players of that time? Maybe those same CDs in today's CD players sound fine? Maybe back then I was listening too loud? I certainly cranked music way more in my 20s than I do in my 40s. I can't explain it.

Now back to the discussion about Pink Floyd's "Wish You Were Here"!

Later,
Kevin

 

I think everyone will accept that there may have been some rushed jobs and some not so well mastered discs simply because it was new technology and even a backlash from the vinyl diehards !.

But we are talking generally here. Generally, the first presses of Abbey Road, Dark Side of the Moon etc etc are very strong forum favourites. I accept that this might not be the case for all japanese first presses and I would certainly not argue the point with forum members who have been buying this stuff since day 1. But isn't it odd that so many of them are so sought after and desirable?

Anway, to answer the question about hiss. I guess that the disc was recorded with a low volume level which made the analogue master tape evident and thats why they used to put those little disclaimers in the CDs saying that the CD technology is so good that it may reveal limitations of the source tape. As someone once said, tongue in cheek, "thats a mark of quality on this forum". If it had been recorded at a higher volume there should be less hiss. Personally, I don't mind hiss-its certainly not a barrier to the enjoyment of this disc.

In fact, It sounds like it was mastered by the same engineer as Dark Side of the Moon-as it seem to possess the same qualities and overall sound as the Non TO version. I bet graphically, there is a huge amount of headroom for these discs, so even when it get busy and complex, the whole thing just hangs together smoothly, without any signs of strain or stress. If I was making a tape copy of this album, thats exactly the way I would have done it.

 

I agree entirely, like I said the Mastersound blew my socks off, because it was a lot better than the normal version-but the 2 track is only 20% (maybe) better IMHO. But still(on some peoples systems,) better.

If I was asked is the 2 track worth a lot of money my answer would be no. I would politely suggest that they purchase the Mastersound version and invest the rest. Its the best version going for $50 and its easy to come by.

 

I just found this thread, unfortunately.

I started out with a regular US WYWH CD that I have an affinity for because of the music, the memories it brings, etc.

When I found this Forum, I discovered that there were/are differences in the "regular" version I've been listening to for years and the versions noted.

The first one I bought was from a member here, the Harvest Blackface version. I'll just say I couldn't believe the difference in the "sound" of the version I had and the Harvest Blackface. It was much clearer and better sounding in general, to me.

I next bought the Mastersound version, but wouldn't listen to it because it was from a collector and is in collectible condition. I bought another recently with the OBI and still sealed, so I could listen to the Mastersound. At the same time, I bought the Japan for US 35DP-4 version and could compare the two. IMHO....the 2-track 35DP-4 is much, much clearer than any version I've heard before, and is preferable to me to the Mastersound, though as Darren stated above, the difference isn't as big a difference as a "regular" old US copy and the better copies I have now. It's my preference (35DP-4). It's clearer, cleaner, and as warm as I could ever expect from a CD of music.

Just my opinion.