Help me understand early Vertigo and Atlantic pressings of Genesis *Abacab* on CD.

KeithH · 12-17-2002, 05:00 PM

Last week, I won the following Vertigo CD of Genesis Abacab on eBay:

It arrived today all the way from Spain, and the CD and back insert were made in West Germany. The catalog number is 800 044-2. The back insert also says "marketed by phonogram". The album cover has the logo in red, blue, yellow, and gray, which is the color scheme used on the current US remaster. As you probably know, early US versions had a different color scheme. Grant (aka vinylrec) showed a picture of a US target CD of Abacab (Atlantic Records) in the big target CD thread running here. He said in this same thread that the Vertigo CD is a 1st pressing import. Does this mean that my Vertigo CD is of similar age to the Atlantic target CD? If not, how old is the Vertigo CD? Finally, do any of you target CD collectors collect the Vertigo CDs as well? Just curious. Thanks in advance.

By the way, I love the look of the Vertigo CD!

Sckott · 12-17-2002, 05:40 PM

Yes, in fact your's is the earliest.

Some of the Vertigo issues were stateside, because the label did limited runs at Germany to take care of both continents while CDs were in its infancy.

This issue is circa 1984-1985.

For instance, my copy of Def Leppard's "Pyromania" is just like that...an orange/red Vertigo, the CD says Manufactured in West Germany by Phonogram.

KeithH · 12-17-2002, 06:30 PM

Sckott, thanks for the information. That's good to know.

Ed Bishop · 12-17-2002, 06:38 PM

My question: if the Vertigo came first, is it the same master as the Atlantic pressing? My guess is yes, but I don't have the Vertigo to compare it to. Logic says of course, since PolyGram pressed both.

ED

PS: I've been thinking about something for weeks now since we went off on these early Hanover/WEA/PolyGram pressings. What about if, after the first of the year(after I get the chance to clear out the PM list), we start compiling some kind of comprehensive WEA/target/Phonogram list? My idea is to have everybody with info PM me(I know I'm askin' for it)and then I'll A-Z all the info and post it on a thread. What do you think? Just a thought; we know all the very 1sts are almost all flat transfers, for better or worse, and maybe, later, put labels to some of them as examples for everybody as to what to look for.

KeithH · 12-17-2002, 06:56 PM

Ed, I too wonder if the Vertigo and Atlantic versions of Abacab and other titles sound the same. If I ever get the Atlantic version of Abacab, I'll let you know.

I love the idea of a reference database of first pressings. That would be wonderful. Imagine if every entry had a picture of the disc. Talk about bandwidth! Anyway, I love the idea. My collection is limited to just seven titles, so I wouldn't exactly be bombarding you.

vinylrec · 12-18-2002, 06:20 AM

I have both of them and they do share the same mastering....

aceman400 · 12-18-2002, 06:24 AM

Were there any differences between the Vertigo Brothers in Arms and the Warner Bros. counterpart? I saw both at the used store on Sunday and didn't know if one was better.
Thanks,
Aaron

vinylrec · 12-18-2002, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by aceman400
Were there any differences between the Vertigo Brothers in Arms and the Warner Bros. counterpart? I saw both at the used store on Sunday and didn't know if one was better.
Thanks,
Aaron

Hmmmm...I bet the one's pressed by Polygram in West Germany sound the same.

wynnwikman · 12-18-2002, 11:57 AM

Hi, i just got a vertigo W. German pressing of the first Dire Straits CD in the mail. The vertigo pressing sounds warmer to me than the later WB US pressing (never got remaster, can't compare to that), with no lack of detail that some early pressings have. The times are very different too - US is 41:49, while the GER is 41:28 (will have to check tracks to see if there is any difference there). Both of these CDs have hiss, so compression must have been kept to a minimum.

If i had a chance to buy the Vertigo BIA i would pick it up.

Wynn

aceman400 · 12-18-2002, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wynnwikman

If i had a chance to buy the Vertigo BIA i would pick it up.

Wynn

I think I will!
Thanks for the advice Wynn,
Aaron

KeithH · 12-18-2002, 04:32 PM

Aaron, are you saying that a store in your area had both the German and US first pressings of Brothers in Arms on CD? If you get both and don't want one, I'll take it! Let me know.

aceman400 · 12-19-2002, 07:45 AM

Keith,
Not Exactly, the store had the Vertigo and I'm not sure which version on Warner Bros.
Aaron

KeithH · 12-19-2002, 07:53 AM

Aaron, O.K. It would be amazing if they had both first pressings, but the Warner Bros. version is probably a common one. I would love to have either the US or German first pressing of Brothers in Arms. Am I correct in assuming that the US first pressing has the target design, meaning that it doesn have the guitar?

Gee, I have the current remastered Vertigo CD, but that's not quite the same thing.

vinylrec · 12-19-2002, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KeithH
Aaron, O.K. It would be amazing if they had both first pressings, but the Warner Bros. version is probably a common one. I would love to have either the US or German first pressing of Brothers in Arms. Am I correct in assuming that the US first pressing has the target design, meaning that it doesn have the guitar?

Gee, I have the current remastered Vertigo CD, but that's not quite the same thing.

The first US pressing has the guitar. It was never pressed as a "target"...

KeithH · 12-19-2002, 08:15 AM

Grant, thanks for the information. How can one tell the first pressing from subsequent ones? Is it a matter of reading the matrix code on the inner ring?

KeithH · 12-19-2002, 08:24 AM

Grant, another couple of questions. Was the first pressing for US distribution actually made in West Germany? What sort of copyright information should I look for? Is there a difference in sound quality between the first pressing and subsequent ones (not counting the recent remaster)? Thanks.

vinylrec · 12-19-2002, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KeithH
Grant, another couple of questions. Was the first pressing for US distribution actually made in West Germany? What sort of copyright information should I look for? Is there a difference in sound quality between the first pressing and subsequent ones (not counting the recent remaster)? Thanks.

A first pressing would either be pressed in Japan or West Germany for US distribution. Both pressings have the guitar graphic.

KeithH · 12-19-2002, 09:39 PM

Grant, thanks again.

12-17-2002, 05:00 PM	#1
KeithH CD collector, and so much more Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: It varies. Posts: 23,723	*Help me understand early Vertigo and Atlantic pressings of Genesis Abacab* on CD.** Last week, I won the following Vertigo CD of Genesis Abacab on eBay: It arrived today all the way from Spain, and the CD and back insert were made in West Germany. The catalog number is 800 044-2. The back insert also says "marketed by phonogram". The album cover has the logo in red, blue, yellow, and gray, which is the color scheme used on the current US remaster. As you probably know, early US versions had a different color scheme. Grant (aka vinylrec) showed a picture of a US target CD of Abacab (Atlantic Records) in the big target CD thread running here. He said in this same thread that the Vertigo CD is a 1st pressing import. Does this mean that my Vertigo CD is of similar age to the Atlantic target CD? If not, how old is the Vertigo CD? Finally, do any of you target CD collectors collect the Vertigo CDs as well? Just curious. Thanks in advance. By the way, I love the look of the Vertigo CD!

12-17-2002, 06:30 PM	#3
KeithH CD collector, and so much more Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: It varies. Posts: 23,723	Sckott, thanks for the information. That's good to know. __________________ www.keithhirsch.com

12-17-2002, 06:38 PM	#4
Ed Bishop Vinyl Hound, Esq. Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Between D.C. and Charleston Posts: 24,568	My question: if the Vertigo came first, is it the same master as the Atlantic pressing? My guess is yes, but I don't have the Vertigo to compare it to. Logic says of course, since PolyGram pressed both. ED PS: I've been thinking about something for weeks now since we went off on these early Hanover/WEA/PolyGram pressings. What about if, after the first of the year(after I get the chance to clear out the PM list), we start compiling some kind of comprehensive WEA/target/Phonogram list? My idea is to have everybody with info PM me(I know I'm askin' for it)and then I'll A-Z all the info and post it on a thread. What do you think? Just a thought; we know all the very 1sts are almost all flat transfers, for better or worse, and maybe, later, put labels to some of them as examples for everybody as to what to look for. __________________ "A Bad " ...have a question about Quad and Multichannel discs? Visit QQ

12-17-2002, 06:56 PM	#5
KeithH CD collector, and so much more Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: It varies. Posts: 23,723	Ed, I too wonder if the Vertigo and Atlantic versions of Abacab and other titles sound the same. If I ever get the Atlantic version of Abacab, I'll let you know. I love the idea of a reference database of first pressings. That would be wonderful. Imagine if every entry had a picture of the disc. Talk about bandwidth! Anyway, I love the idea. My collection is limited to just seven titles, so I wouldn't exactly be bombarding you. __________________ www.keithhirsch.com

12-18-2002, 06:20 AM	#6
vinylrec Vinyl Fan Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Delaware, Ohio Posts: 644	I have both of them and they do share the same mastering.... __________________ Grant

12-17-2002, 05:40 PM	#2
Sckott Goodbye. Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: MA Posts: 19,949	Yes, in fact your's is the earliest. Some of the Vertigo issues were stateside, because the label did limited runs at Germany to take care of both continents while CDs were in its infancy. This issue is circa 1984-1985. For instance, my copy of Def Leppard's "Pyromania" is just like that...an orange/red Vertigo, the CD says Manufactured in West Germany by Phonogram.

12-18-2002, 06:24 AM	#7
aceman400 Black Triangle Fan Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: mn Posts: 1,730	Were there any differences between the Vertigo Brothers in Arms and the Warner Bros. counterpart? I saw both at the used store on Sunday and didn't know if one was better. Thanks, Aaron __________________ Nobody's hoping for better days Aaron AKA Ace

12-18-2002, 11:57 AM	#9
wynnwikman Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Indiana (Middle) and Michigan (West) Posts: 165	Hi, i just got a vertigo W. German pressing of the first Dire Straits CD in the mail. The vertigo pressing sounds warmer to me than the later WB US pressing (never got remaster, can't compare to that), with no lack of detail that some early pressings have. The times are very different too - US is 41:49, while the GER is 41:28 (will have to check tracks to see if there is any difference there). Both of these CDs have hiss, so compression must have been kept to a minimum. If i had a chance to buy the Vertigo BIA i would pick it up. Wynn

12-18-2002, 04:32 PM	#11
KeithH CD collector, and so much more Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: It varies. Posts: 23,723	Aaron, are you saying that a store in your area had both the German and US first pressings of Brothers in Arms on CD? If you get both and don't want one, I'll take it! Let me know. __________________ www.keithhirsch.com

12-19-2002, 07:45 AM	#12
aceman400 Black Triangle Fan Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: mn Posts: 1,730	Keith, Not Exactly, the store had the Vertigo and I'm not sure which version on Warner Bros. Aaron __________________ Nobody's hoping for better days Aaron AKA Ace

12-19-2002, 07:53 AM	#13
KeithH CD collector, and so much more Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: It varies. Posts: 23,723	Aaron, O.K. It would be amazing if they had both first pressings, but the Warner Bros. version is probably a common one. I would love to have either the US or German first pressing of Brothers in Arms. Am I correct in assuming that the US first pressing has the target design, meaning that it doesn have the guitar? Gee, I have the current remastered Vertigo CD, but that's not quite the same thing. __________________ www.keithhirsch.com

12-19-2002, 08:15 AM	#15
KeithH CD collector, and so much more Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: It varies. Posts: 23,723	Grant, thanks for the information. How can one tell the first pressing from subsequent ones? Is it a matter of reading the matrix code on the inner ring? __________________ www.keithhirsch.com

12-19-2002, 08:24 AM	#16
KeithH CD collector, and so much more Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: It varies. Posts: 23,723	Grant, another couple of questions. Was the first pressing for US distribution actually made in West Germany? What sort of copyright information should I look for? Is there a difference in sound quality between the first pressing and subsequent ones (not counting the recent remaster)? Thanks. __________________ www.keithhirsch.com

12-19-2002, 09:39 PM	#18
KeithH CD collector, and so much more Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: It varies. Posts: 23,723	Grant, thanks again. __________________ www.keithhirsch.com

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