Black Sabbath 'Paranoid' - CD sound comparisons

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by progmog, Jul 15, 2006.

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  1. progmog

    progmog Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Apologies for starting a new thread on this. I tried to post to this thread:

    http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/s...page=4&pp=20&highlight=Black+Sabbath+Paranoid

    but it seems to have been archived. I have just been performing a shootout between what I believe to be the first Japan pressing of Black Sabbath's 'Paranoid' (Vertigo 33PD-353) and the second pressing (Vertigo 23PD-134). The 33PD- version is a two-fer, which comes with the first self-titled album.

    I found the 33PD version a little muddy, with bloated bass, and it sounded as though the top-end had been rolled off a little. The 23PD on the other hand was much clearer, not bass-heavy and didn't have the top-end rolled off. Definitely my preferred version of the two.

    The only other version I have for comparison is the Japan mini-LP CD on the Teichiku label (TECI-24031), which I believe has the same mastering as the Castle remaster, and which has been jacked up way-y-y-y-y too loud for my liking. :shake:

    Does anyone have the original vinyl and, if so, does it sound like the 33PD version that I have described above?
     
  2. progmog

    progmog Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    A little bed-time bump... :wave:
     
  3. I would be very interested in this as well. What is the best sounding version on CD of this classic Black Sabbath album?

    We have the following:

    non-remastered WB US (flat transfer, but from inferior tape source)
    non-remastered Castle UK/France/Germany (never heard this one but read about it somewhere that it is not very good - comes with or without bonus live track I think)
    1st Japanese pressing Vertigo (see above, not the best)
    2nd Japanese pressing Vertigo (seems to be quite good based on Owais' comment)
    WG Vertigo pressing (not good according to Jeff, possibly same as 1st Japanese pressing)
    remastered versions (Castle, Sanctuary, Black Box, etc.) - based on the comments I have read so far I will most likely not like these due to compression etc.

    Black Sabbath must be the most complex CD catalog. No simple answers there.

    Roland
     
  4. antonkk

    antonkk Senior Member

    Location:
    moscow
    Black Box remaster is great for this one! :righton:
     
  5. Gary

    Gary Nauga Gort! Staff

    Location:
    Toronto
    Is the Black Box remaster just the same as the Castle remaster?
     
  6. HeavyDistortion

    HeavyDistortion Senior Member

    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    Gary,

    I believe that the Black Box remasters were done in the US by Rhino, and should have different mastering than the Castle remasters.




    Ed Hurdle
    HeavyDistortion
     
  7. imagnrywar

    imagnrywar Senior Member

    Location:
    San Francisco
    i don't think the 1996 castle remasters are compressed at all.
     
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  8. imagnrywar

    imagnrywar Senior Member

    Location:
    San Francisco
    i don't think the 1996 castle remasters are compressed at all, at least the four albums (haven't heard the others).
     
  9. John Buchanan

    John Buchanan I'm just a headphone kind of fellow. Stax Sigma

    Vinyl.
    There are two basic lines of sound for Black Sabbath's Paranoid: the original UK Vertigo and the original US Warner Brothers. The Vertigo used a sound source somewhat closer to the original UK master tape, as it doesn't have the very obvious intermittent sound level variations throughout War Pigs in particular. The cymbals are much more obvious than the WB edition, without being over the top. I was quite shocked to hear the WB vinyl after the Vertigo. I actually returned a WB copy thinking it was faulty - no luck - same on the next one.
    CD.
    The WB CD used the same master that had been used for the vinyl.
    The 1996 Castle replicates the UK Vertigo without compression. Check out the waveforms. A very nice version. Early copies had a fault in "Fairies Wear Boots" I think - this was corrected long ago.
    The Rhino Black Box edition is mastered using the same old Warners tape, except there has been some attempt to correct the tape faults in War Pigs. It is, however, maximized and much brighter than the Castle/Vertigo/WB versions.
    IMHO, for faithfulness to the original, go for the Castle remaster. US residents will be used to the inferior, duller Warners sound, so they may prefer the current WB CD, citing tube warmth.
     
    David del Toro and quicksrt like this.
  10. progmog

    progmog Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Thanks for the insight. That's interesting what you say about the Castle remasters not being compressed. I always believed the Teichiku mini LP CDs to be be clones of the Castle remasters because they have Castle/Sanctuary copyright language on them, and the Teichikus are definitely louder than both the Japan first and second pressings.
     
  11. Could you please post a picture of the wav-form of one of the tracks, or has this already been posted somewhere else?

    That would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

    Roland
     
  12. A friend of mine has a 2-CD set from Castle from 1988 which has "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath" on CD 1 and "Black Sabbath" on CD 2. Both CD's are non-remastered versions and each CD features a hidden live track not mentioned anywhere (I would have preferred if they left those off).

    I compared SBS of this 2-CD set to my WB US CD, and I did like the Castle a little bit better. It just sounded a little warmer and more musical. It is not compressed at all either.

    I then did buy a used old Castle CD from 1986 (which doesn't have the bonus live track) but which is otherwise the same mastering as the 1988 Castle twofer.

    "Black Sabbth" on the 2-CD set also sounds very nice, but I haven't compared it to any other version.

    Since the Castle remasters are from around 1996, I am wondering if all Castle releases from 1986-1991 feature the same mastering (including the Japanese Teichiku releases from 1991).

    Roland
     
  13. apesmu

    apesmu Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kobe, Japan
    hi all,

    just saw a 1980's reissue of this album on Japanese Vinyl - anyone know how this (or any of the Japanese LP pressings) compare for that matter?

    :help:

    thanx!

    :righton:
     
  14. jsayers

    jsayers Just Drifting....

    Location:
    Horse Shoe, NC
    Damn! I dumped all my Castle remasters <and I had ALL of them!> of the "Ozzy Years" when I bought Rhino's Black Box. Please don't tell me what I think you're telling me -
     
  15. pool_of_tears

    pool_of_tears Searching For Simplicity

    Location:
    Midwest
    I found the 1996 Castle remaster to be far better than the late 80's Warners disc. It sounded warmer and clearer to my ears.

    The worst offender of the Warners discs was Master Of Reality...it'd make a great coaster. A comparison of the 1996 Castle disc to the Warner disc is like night and day. Sounds like a 2nd or 3rd generation EQ'ed tape. No master tape sounds like that!
     
  16. johnny 99

    johnny 99 Down On Main Street

    Location:
    Toronto
    Castle Remaster Rules!

    I compared the orig. WB cd from the 80's and the 90's Castle version and the Castle version blows the other to planet caravan. Trust me on this. Louder is better for this classic album. Even the warner vinyl we had as kids sounded like dog sh-t. Why does everyone think :wave: :wave: a louder remaster is somehow inferior to anything else??
     
  17. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Location:
    Bay Area, U.S.A.
    Correct, there is a short drop-out in the right hand channel a few seconds into the start of Fairies.
     
  18. JWB

    JWB New Member

    The Castles were made from better tapes and they sound better. Sorry.
     
  19. John Buchanan

    John Buchanan I'm just a headphone kind of fellow. Stax Sigma

    ...and this was quickly corrected. The Castle mini-LP version I have is the corrected version.
     
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  20. John Buchanan

    John Buchanan I'm just a headphone kind of fellow. Stax Sigma

  21. yesstiles

    yesstiles Senior Member

    Wow. This is all news to me. I thought I had read on here and elsewhere many times that the best version of "Paranoid" on cd is the US WB version.
     
  22. Wmacky

    Wmacky Forum Resident

    Well the WB us version has 2 things going for it.

    1. You can buy today at Wally world for 7 bucks
    2. It's what The US listeners remember from back in the day!
     
  23. Wmacky

    Wmacky Forum Resident


    Well it's like this:

    Nothings wrong with a higher level until you reach the limit and the wavform gets clipped. To avoid this the industry compresses all dynamic range from the audio, and your left with a lifeless wall of sound thats all the same volume all the way through! At this point it seems that remasters get jacked up so high anyway that they clip. This can sound very nice on your alarm clock radio! Most find that shortly after this WOW factor passes, the music becomes fatiguing to listen to. Thats the best I can explain it to ya!
     
  24. BradOlson

    BradOlson Country/Christian Music Maven

    My Paranoid CD is the US WB version.
     
    George P likes this.
  25. John, thanks for the reference. :righton:

    I looked at the wav-forms of War Pigs, and while the Black Box version is definitely much worse, the UK Castle remaster is also a little compressed and it should be easily audible. I am pretty sure it will not be to my liking.

    Did anybody ever compare the original non-remaster Castle version to the US WB or the early (second) Japanese CD on Vertigo?

    Roland
     
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