Jeff Lynne production sound

Seems like, given the recent opinions expressed regarding Jeff Lynne possibly making George Harrison's upcoming album a bit "posher" than Harrison may have wanted, that many people don't seem to have a liking for Lynne's glossy production.

I, for one, happen to like it, namely the material he produced in the '80's. Orbison's "You Got It", "Rain is Falling" and "Calling America" from E.L.O., for instance... it suits the songs. Or maybe the song suit the production. I don't know.

Who else here actually doesn't mind Lynne's heavy-handed gloss on almost everything he touches?

 

My opinion is mixed, depending on the situation. I really liked Cloud Nine. After Gone Troppo (an album I really didn't like) I didn't mind seeing George do something really slick and poppy. Lynne's production on the Wilburys also was fine with me, in the context of those songs. On the other hand, I REALLY hated what he did with the Beatles reunion tracks on the Anthologies. The Lynne sound was totally wrong for the Beatles.

 

I like Lynne's work on his own and ELO's stuff, but I prefer a different sound for other artists.

 

I like his sound.

 

Randy Newman likes it.

 

I really hate that drum sound, in particular. Kind of distant, squashed, etc...

Lynne's "sound" isn't too evident on Full Moon Fever, but it is on Into The Great Wide Open. Squashed, mostly mono drum sound, with acoustic guitars doubled and mixed hard left and right (and up in the mix, too). Same with Free As A Bird - acoustic guitars that "surround" you, distant, squashed drum sound, etc. Lots of backing vocals up in the mix... Lots of stuff in "stereo", but no real separation of the instruments.

I think one way to describe Lynne's style is it sounds like you're listening to a *production*, not a band playing together.

 

Yeah, me too. Not on everything or all the time, but with the right songs and projects I think it's nice. I love the first Wilbury's album, as well as "Cloud Nine" and especially "Full Moon Fever". And the big drum sound too, love it. To each his own.
Dan C

 

He's the main reason I have several 1176 compressors.

Was kind of dissapointed with the mixes on Zoom. Wished it was more like the Wilburys or Anthology Beatles stuff.

 

I think he did a great job on Real Love and Free As A Bird. I can't really imagine how the songs could have come out any better. Consider what he had to work with!!!! A mono rough cassette! Really, he did capture the essence of late Beatles on these tracks.----Very Abbey-Road-ish.

Isn't it great that we have a chance to enjoy these tracks?

 

Paul--I agree. In the 80's, I could never have imagined the "Threatles" getting together and finishing off a couple of John's demos. Even though it's been 7 years since the "Anthology", I am still amazed that it even happened. I really enjoy "Free As A Bird" and "Real Love". Sure you can hear some of Jeff's telltale production "tricks" in the tracks but they are still very well done. I only wish we could have heard more from this promising trio!

 

I do like Jeff's production style as it provides character for the right music.

 

We obviously all have our own opinions, but I have to disagree that they really sound like Beatles recordings. When has Ringo sounded like *that* before? What Beatles recording is set in a wash of screechy acoustic guitars? What Beatles recording is a wash in general?

It also seems like Lynne made the differences between the demos and the new recordings even bigger than he needed to. Check out FAAB. John's vocal is (obviously) kind of thin and distant (and centered), and then the backing vocals come in really loud left and right. Kind of like "that was the old, now we're going to show you the new - look what a big difference there is".

 

I thought John's voice sounded sort of ghostly, like he was joining the Beatles from beyond. I think that's what they were going for.

Just because Ringo never sounded like *that* before doesn't mean it's necessarily wrong. It's just different. After all, it was some 25 + years after the Beatles last played together. Styles change. Personally, I never much liked that sterile "tumpety thump" drum sound on the Let It Be album. Ringo's drums didn't sound like *that* before either!

It's easy to understand why Lynne's style would be so controversial. It's definitely an unmistakable fingerprint.

Dan C

 

I already elaborated (over-elaborated?) on what I think of Jeff's style in the "Brainwashed first impressions" thread, but I can definitely imagine the Threetles tracks being better! You don't take a distinctive drummer like Ringo and reduce him to a "tick-THUD" sample on a click track. And Paul, a great bass player, is invisible on the reunion tracks. Both of them are saved by the songs themselves (which are decent) and George's guitar work.

The irony of complaining about Jeff's Beatles reunion work is that without Jeff, I suspect there would have been no reunion. Think about it: Jeff is George's best friend, George was wary of playing second fiddle to Paul again, George insists on bringing Jeff in, Paul has no choice but to agree, and the result? Ringo's drumming style is stifled. Paul's bass style is completely ignored along with his musical ideas (he had a '40s orchestral backing in mind for "FAAB", to which George replied along the lines of "well, we're not doing THAT"). But who shines through, loud and clear? George and Jeff. It was a power play, pure and simple, and George saw his chance to stick it to Paul for once. I'm not completely thrilled with the results, but I was happy for George.

I thought they did the best they could with John's cassette, but they should have let Paul double his vocals more prominently. They should have just time-corrected John's FAAB demo and let Ringo and Paul play to it live. The backing vocals were great, the additional lyrics were poignant, and George was of course terrific. I thought Real Love was a whole lot better, as a song and a production, than FAAB. Ringo sounded more like Ringo, but Paul's bass is still lost. Great guitar fills from George.

Sean Murdock

 

Out of the two 'Threetles' songs, I think 'Free As A Bird' is the stronger one. It has some of the Beatles magic in it (can't put my finger on what that is exactly). Yes, it does have the Jeff Lynne signiture but I really can't imagine Paul and George (and a tad of Ringo) not being very clear about what they wanted during the process. 'Real Love' just sounds too edited and manipulated for me. I can understand why they wanted to speed up the tempo but IMO it just destroys John's voice (too chipmunk-like). Also, the fading in and out of John's vocal (which cuts the piano) just gets on my nerves (yes, for technical reasons but it just doesn't work). George's guitar noodling on the verses, etc. just doesn't sound so polished either (almost like too much filler during a jam). So, I don't blast Jeff Lynne for the work he did on these songs because again, I think it was more of the Threetles in charge rather than him...

Todd

 

My suspicions were confirmed by George Martin himself in the interview in another thread. Asked about the reunion tracks, he said:

"I was surprised that they didn't ask me, but the reason for it was quite simple. There were two main artistic forces at work here, because Ringo was not the main artistic force, Paul wanted me involved and George didn't mind me being involved, but he also wanted Jeff Lynne and I said you can't have two producers."

Sean

 

You know, there's a lot of talk about the Anthology tunes not sounding like the Beatles. Have you heard any of their recent solo albums? They have a Jeff Lynn sound to them.

If they were still together today I bet they'd be doing slow, adult contemporary stuff like what has been showing up on their solo efforts and much like what we heard on the Anthology.

 

As others have noted, it seems like it was mostly George in charge (and through him, Lynne) with Paul deferring because he was more invested in making the reunion happen than he was in getting his way musically. I agree with Sean... the reunion tracks are better than nothing (which is likely what we'd have gotten if Paul had said "no" to Lynne's involvement) but not as good as they could have been with no Lynne. Has anyone heard the bootleg mix of FAAB which has turned up on various discs? It combines John's original demo with Paul and George guitar and backing vocals extracted by OOPSing the released version. It's SO much better, in my opinion, and shows what could have been with a subtler production hand.

 

I get the feeling Jeff Lynne must be one of the nicest people in the music business.
I am not an ELO fan but I do have my share of Move and ELO LPs and CDs.
As for the sound he imparts on other people's records....
Exhibit A:
In 1983 Dave Edmunds released an album called "Information" produced by Jeff. On this album... listen to Dave's versions of WAIT and I WANT YOU BAD ... then listen to the originals (J Giles Band (first album) and NRBQ at Yankee Stadium respectively).

Case closed. You decide.

BC

 

I've never been much of an ELO fan, but I was an impressionable lad in high school when Cloud Nine, Full Moon Fever, Mystery Girl and the first Wilburys album came out. All became big favorites (especially the Wilburys), and as a budding home-recording hobbyist at the time I have to say those records were among my chief influences then.

So I'm one of those who normally quite likes the Jeff Lynne sound, or at least has no major objection to it. I've developed a bit of a preference for airier, more natural recordings, but I still love those records listed above.

But I thought Into the Great Wide Open was a mess. I wasn't too thrilled with the Wilburys' Vol. 3 either. And "Free as a Bird" and "Real Love," while nice to have, really shouldn't have been Lynne productions, IMO. They don't sound very Beatley to me.

I do think Lynne did some better work recently, on both Flaming Pie and the new Harrison album, neither of which I feel is overdone with the Lynne sound.

 

My feelings exactly.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Thanks Jeff
BC

 

Exactly. It's a recipe. The aural equivalent of junk food or McDonalds. Tastes the same all across the world. There's no space. Everything is so freakin' thin. There's no individual character to the players.

Yeeech.

It's not just the sound itself but the playing. On ELO stuff, the playing sounds so safe and contrived. Bev Bevan was not allowed to ever do a roll across the toms. It was always this "THUMP THUMP THUMP THUMP THUMP".

Or perhaps he couldn't do a roll?

Having said that, I do think that Secret Messages was a wonderful record and well produced.

Might have had something to do with the fact that Bill Bottrell engineered.

 

The production on a couple of the songs on George's new album reminded me of Flaming Pie. Then I remembered that Jeff worked with Paul on those songs. Paul must have liked something about Jeff's style.

George Martin stated that had he done the production for the Threetles, he would have worked organically with the songs. That is, he would have orchestrated around the cassette with all its timing flaws instead of "fixing" the tape so it could easily be synchronized.
Anyone hear Grow Old With Me on Lennon's Anthology? George M's production and he found a bass player who played in Paul's style.

 

I have always thought a good producer helps a band find their own sound, not make everything he touches sound the same. I do like ELO but I don't think every band in the world needs to sound like them. If a producer has done a good job I shouldn't know who he is without reading the liner notes.