The Joni Mitchell album by album thread

Joni Mitchell was mentioned and it inspired me to do that one first. I will start another one soon. Remember we are going album by album. No jumping ahead. Please stick w/ it if you are fan so it doesn't die out before we are done.

So here's it is. Joni's debut- Joni Mitchell aka Song To Seagull. March 1968.
1. I Had A King
2. Michael From Mountains
3. Night In The City
4. Marcie
5. Nathan La Franeer
6. Sisotowbell Lane
7. The Dawntreader
8. The Pirate Of Penance
9. Song To A Seagull
10. Cactus Tree

For me this album is too much Joan Baez and not enough Joni. She didn't really have an identity here on this album. To me, she sounded like every other woman folk artist out there at the time.
2 major problems with this album is that:
A) David Crosby produced it and admitted to screwing up the project.
B) It didn't contain her best material that she had already written at the time like Both Sides Now, Circle Game, Chelsea Morning, Urge For the Going, etc.
So what you have is an album that is her worst one (IMHO) until the 80's rolled around (see Chalk Mark In A Rainstorm).
I'm listening to this album right now and nothing really stands out except for I Had A King, Cactus Tree, and Night In The City. Everything else kind of wisps away from me. It's an album that you can throw on and not think too much about. It gets much better after this.

2 stars out of 5

 

I like it quite more than you do, but you are right, it gets much better.

 

I absolutely love this album. It's probably my favourite Joni album (Hissing is the other contender). I have listened to it countless times.

It's very much a product of its time, and as Joni admits, rather naive. But I think that's what I like about it... there is a sort of innocent beauty to it. It could not have been done at any other time, and listening to it is a real trip for me.

That aside, "I Had A King" and "Marcie" are among the very best songs she's ever written IMO. I love the lyrical imagery in "Song To A Seagull". I even like the muffled, noisy, reverberated production... while not ideal, I much prefer that to the cold dryness of Clouds.

 

This is my favorite of her first 3 albums. The title track, Marcie, The Dawntreader and Cactus Tree can all still give me chills to this day......

 

ditto. i'd give it 3.5 stars. i like the simple folkiness, the 'Baez-ness' of it. the songs are not quite up to spec vis-a-vis her halcyon years, but i see the album as a period piece of the fabled Laurel Canyon scene, Joni's salad days. i just love that era. if you are into this album and have a TT rig, you gotta get the two-tone Reprise original pressing; it blows away the later editions.

 

My intoduction to Joni was a $1 copy of Hissing. Not being into chick music, I gave it a spin and loved found probably the artist I respect most. However, with the exception of Court and Blue, I've had a hard time working backwards thru her stuff. I never got very far with this one. Seems like it's more from my Mom's era than mine. A little too Joan Baez for me. I haven't tried it in about 10 years. Maybe it's time. Everyone also talks about For the Roses, but it hasn't hit me yet.

 

All I've ever heard Crosby say about this record is that he basically put his name on it to get Joni some publicity, and didn't do much "producing" beyond that.

 

I'll re-check my DVD of Woman & Heart and Mind. That's where I got my quote from.

 

There's some mention of a production screw-up in the excellent Joni biography, Shadows and Light, written by Karen O'Brien. I don't have the book in front of me, but Crosby admitted to fouling up some part of the production. I'll have a look when I get home and report back.

Anyway, I've been playing the pre-Blue CDs more lately and finding that they grab me more now than they did when I first bought them a few years ago. "Night in the City" and "Cactus Tree" are my favorites on the debut. I'd give the album 3.5 stars out of 5. Sure, Joni got better later on, but this album has a certain charm to it.

 

Also note that Stephen Stills contributes the bass guitar track to "Night in the City".

David Crosby commented on producing Song to a Seagull here:

Wally: Can we talk a little bit more about Joni's first album? I've read that there was some kind of a problem with the master tape. It had a buzz or high-pitched hum or somesuch on it?

David: Yeah, I hadn't recorded it well enough. I had allowed too much noise - too much signal-to-noise ratio - too much hiss.

Wally: Was that because, as I understand, you miked the piano strings as well as her vocals?

David: Yes. I wanted to try and get the overtones that happen from the resonating of the piano and, of course, it recorded at way too low a level. If you use those mikes at all you get a hiss, so we had to go in and take those things out. It was just an idea and it didn't work. It shows you that I really didn't know enough to do it.

Wally: So how did you take out the hiss? Did you just turn it down?

David: We went back in and remixed it without all those tracks.

Wally: I understand that now there are better processes available for remastering the tapes. When they reissue the album, which Reprise is planning to do, it shouldn't sound so much like it's "under a bell jar" as it's been referred to.

David: Yeah, I'm sure they can make it better now. Like I said, I didn't know enough to know what I was doing but we did get the actual songs down without a bunch of other crud on it and that made me happy.

Wally: Well, it's a wonderful album, and a very intimate experience. I think the production served the material well.

David: It could have served it better. But it's what happened.

Wally: The greatest thing about you producing her is that it allowed you both to do exactly what you wanted to do, which was to present Joni's music just as it was performed live.

David: That's the thing I'm proudest of. With the exception of the one song that Stephen (Stills) played bass on. That's the only track anybody else played on.

See also: A Conversation with David Crosby.

 

I knew you'd post about this thread lol.

 

Leppo, thanks for posting that. That's the gist of what was in the biography. As soon as I read your post, it came back to me.

Speaking of, if you're even a casual Joni fan, Shadows and Light is a very interesting and informative book. Well worth reading.

 

Song To A Seagull is probably one of the least listened to Joni albums by me. It has some fine songs though. "I Had A King" starts things off wonderfully. I tend to think that this should've been a piano song. Joni plays the guitar on this song with almost the same rhythm she uses on her piano tracks. I've always liked "Night In The City", but that mostly because of the Stills overdubs. "The Dawntreader" is one of Joni's first classics. Its even a little ahead of its time. Lyrics aside, this song would've fit just fine on Hejira or Don Juan's Reckless Daughter. Lastly, "Cactus Tree" is the absolute masterpiece of the album. And I think its the only song she references in another song - in "Amelia" she sings "I pulled into the Cactus Tree Motel", which is given the content of both songs is totally self-referential. Even if there is a real Cactus Tree Motel, I still think Joni is referring to the song.

I never knew about Crosby feeling he screwed up the production. I always knew the part about how he wanted to "produce" the album in order to prevent the label from trying to turning her into a folk pop act. It seemed to me that he wanted to "protect" Joni, and get her career off to a good start - by good I mean that it was on her terms.

 

And I can't believe you didn't post on that 7-page-two-man-conversation "When did The Beatles stop being John's band", lol

 

Here's the lowdown on Cactus Tree from jonimitchell.com (the best Joni website out there):
The following was submitted by Richard Flynn


Introducing Cactus Tree at her October 12, 1967 show at Philadelphia's Second Fret, Joni tells the following story:

Three nights ago I went to a movie in New York City a Bob Dylan movie, the new Bob Dylan and Joan Baez live feature movie. And I'd never seen Dylan perform, you see, so I'd wondered why David Blue and Eric Andersen, although they were supposed to be imitators of Dylan, neither one of them were alike. And I found out that Eric is Dylan's sense of humor and David Blue is his grouchiness. At least that is in my humble opinion. But, uh,I'm about to be influenced by Mr. Dylan, you see. I'm, uh, late to this, and everybody who started out as songwriters at this point has been influenced by Mr. Dylan. Well to this point I don't think I have. At least I haven't noticed. . . .
In a 1970 interview, Joni says, " I wrote a song called 'Cactus Tree' which is Dylan influenced in its melody and even its style. I even lengthen my A's when I sing it because it sings better. It's all sort of in a monotone - I wrote it after I saw 'Don't Look Back which I think left a big impression on me."



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Saquaro cactus tree
Literally, a "cactus tree" is the Saquaro cactus found only in the Sonoran Desert region of Arizona and northern Mexico. Joni's line "And her heart is full and hollow like a cactus tree" could be a metaphor for how the cacti use and store water. Many features assist the saguaro in conserving that most precious of desert commodities.

Accordion-like pleats allow the saguaro to expand and hold water collected through the roots. Spongy flesh in the trunk and branches serves as a reservoir where water is stored as a slow to evaporate gelatin like substance. Unlike most plants, the saguaro cactus has no conventional leaves, which transpire large amounts of water. The food-making process of photosynthesis normally carried out by green leaves is performed in the trunk and branches. Spines discourage animals from taking the cactus' moisture, shade the plant, and shield it from drying winds. Waxy skin aids in reducing moisture loss.

The saguaro collects water with a network of roots that lies about 3 inches below the surface and stretches as far out from the main stem as the saguaro is tall. In a single rainfall, these shallow roots, along with special small root hairs that grow in response to moisture, may soak up as much as 200 gallons of water, enough to last the saguaro a year.

The saquaro cactus then - depending on the time of year and amount of rainfall - is sometimes full and sometimes hollow... just like Joni's character's heart.

 

The Joni Mitchell Discussion List (jmdl.com) was much better IMO than the old jonimitchell.com. They had a massive library of Joni articles and reviews. A person could spend hours reading stuff there. Recently, jmdl.com was folded into jonimitchell.com.

 

I haven't listened to this one in a VERY long time and the reason may just be that it didn't impress me much, so I don't go back to it. The only version I've got is the LP, can't remember if it's the two-tone label. Looking at the track listings I honestly can't remember how any of the songs go. This thread, however, has inspired me to give it a listen to refresh my memory, if nothing else.

I'll report back!

Jason

 

i love joni and i love crosby, but this is not one of my favorite joni albums. it was, however, a glimpse of what was to come.

renny

 

Well, imagine if Joni had released only this album. Or possibly this one and Clouds and then no more. Songs To A Seagull would probably show up in a classic lost albums article in a magazine like Mojo. The article would note the cover versions of songs from the album, and point out the greatness of tracks like "Cactus Tree" and "The Dawntreader". If Clouds was added, then Joni would be considered a lost folk artist who had great potential, with much attention paid to her composition of "Both Sides Now". And a lot of people would have both albums on that premise alone. Her fame might be somewhere in the Fred Neil category.

Her later work, starting with Ladies Of The Canyon, help me "get" the first two albums better than I might otherwise. The first two albums are also more widely known because of her later work and fame. By themselves, I'm guessing that they'd be considered lost semi-classics. And people might wonder why Joni Mitchell didn't realize the potential she showed on her first and second albums.

One thing I find somewhat odd is that there are a few songs that originate from the 67-68 era that for some reason weren't released until later, and they're better than most of what she DID release. I'm thinking about "Little Green", "Urge For Going" and "Circle Game", in particular. I think "Morning Morgantown" is also older.

 

Don't tell Paul Ok?

 

Weren't there already cover versions of "Urge for Going" and "Circle Game" in the charts? Perhaps Joni wanted to spotlight the newest songs she had written, and only went back and recorded the others when she was short of material.

 

I don't know. In the case of "Little Green", she removed a new song, "Hunter (The Good Samaritan)", while including "Little Green" on Blue. "Urge For Going" was released only as a b-side, but its such a good song. It was included on a rough mix of Blue, and sounds like it was recorded at that time. So Blue almost included two older songs. Yet, we don't typically think of Blue being a fallow period for Joni songwriting-wise.

 

"Hunter" resurfaced as "This Flight Tonight", at least musically.

 

Well, as with any Joni Mitchell album, I am always in love with the different tunings she used on guitar. I don't think she used a "standard" tuning (EADGBE) until "Tin Angel," but even then she threw on a capo.

1. I Had A King DADEAD (capo 7th fret)
2. Michael From Mountains FFCGAC
3. Night In The City DADF#AD (capo 5th fret)
4. Marcie DGDGBD
5. Nathan La Franeer DGDGBD
6. Sisotowbell Lane CGDFCE (capo 2nd fret)
7. The Dawntreader DGDDAD
8. The Pirate Of Penance DADFAD
9. Song To A Seagull CGCGGC
10. Cactus Tree DADF#AD (capo 4th fret)

 

I hear the similarity in the type of guitar playing and sound, but "This Flight Tonight" has different chords and melody. Do you know something I don't? By the way, "Hunter" really isn't that good of a song.