Friedrich Gulda, and AMSI mastering

Last week's Beethoven thread got me interested in Friedrich Gulda (thank you, MartinGr). After listening to samples and reading his bio, I want to purchase his 1967 set of piano sonatas originally released for the Austrian label Amadeo. I've found two complete CD sets from this cycle, and I'm looking for advice on which to buy.

The first is on Brilliant Classics. It received a nice review at ClassicsToday.com for both performance and sound quality. The previous Amadeo release was apparently marred by the addition of phony reverb. This set omits the reverb, and sells for about $40-50.

The second set is on Eloquence, available only in Germany. This set sells for about US$25 plus shipping at Amazon.de, and throws in the five piano concertos. But look at the cover---it was mastered with AMSI, Ambient Surround Imaging technology.

My question: which set will sound better? I have no interest in Surround Sound. Is AMSI an intrusive gimmick or a beneficial mastering technique?

 

I haven't heard both of them. I think I'd go with the Brillant, although I've read nice reviews about the Universal remastering. But as far as I know AMSI is an algorithm, that works with subtile phase shiftings, so that a PLII decoder has something to do, when activated.
Especially Gulda doesn't need this. Some of his recordings are very direct, but that fits fine to his interpretations. I bought the original Amadeo CDs 20 years ago, and I can't think how to improve them. But don't expect a lot of room. Which added reverb???? I don't hear any.

The only "problem" some might have with the original CDs is the use of subindices for the movements. I like this, but unfortunately subindices aren't anymore in modern players.
Oh, but the Universal box has the DECCA piano concertos, too? One of his weaker recordings in his catalogue, but still... not bad!
And if your getting into Gulda, check out his Mozart recordings - and then his own compositions, especially the 5-CD-Box Midlife Harvest....

Martin

 

AMSI

If the mastering sounds identical, I'm inclined to try the German release, if only to have the piano concertos as well, for about the same price. But if it's fuzzy or phasey, I'll be very unhappy. I've searched the web for opinions on Eloquence's AMSI process. A few liked it, a few didn't. I have a Saint-Saens Dutoit AMSI-mastered Eloquence disc that I haven't opened yet (story of my life). I'll listen carefully to that before I decide. Thanks, Martin.

 

AMSI

I gave the Saint-Saens AMSI disc a good listen today. The characteristic that stood out was the separation. Occasionally a background drumbeat or trumpet note seemed to jump out unexpectedly from the far left or right. I couldn't tell if this was the by-product of ambient sound processing, or the product of an unusually wide soundstage. The recording was tonally well balanced and not harsh, even at loud levels. If this CD is a good indication of the sound quality of the Friedrich Gulda Eloquence box, I would not be concerned.

Universal's German web site has a page for the Eloquence box with good quality one-and-a-half minute (!) samples of each movement.
http://www.klassikakzente.de/searchresult_detail_product.jsp?articleNo=002894768761&configuration=CD

The Brilliant Classics box is a good value, even if the German Eloquence box beats it in content. I'm going to try and find more information on AMSI before choosing which box to buy. Any additional comments on AMSI would be appreciated.

 

I once had an AMSI remastering of the 60's Decca-Chicago "Rite of Spring". The only thing I can say is that the strings sounded like they were made of plastic. Absolutely appaling and terrible. I never bought another AMSI CD and may never do so again.

To widen the subject a bit: what about the Abbey Road ART remastering? Is this supervised by Mr. Mew, too, like the rock releases?

 

ART

I have Carlo Maria Giulini's Rossini Overtures remastered using Abbey Road Technology (dumb name). It sounded like the dynamic range was expanded, giving the music an uneven quality. But I couldn't say if ART caused this.

For what it's worth, I ordered the Eloquence Gulda set. The price was too good to pass up, about $29 once combined with two other items I wanted. The Saint-Saens Eloquence disc may have some anomalies, but they were not apparent to me, and it had good sound overall. I've heard the plastic string sound you mentioned, tomcat, on some late fifties or early sixties classical recordings, both LP and CD. I attributed it to ambitious equalization applied to boost the high end.

 

I don't think you can go really wrong with that. Please post when you have impressions...!

I still couldn't find out what AMSI I exactly is, apart from beeing a miraculous invention from Emil Berliner Studios, former Deutsche Grammphon.
They add some ambiance in a way, that a PrologicII decoder has something to do. So my simple version would be, to add some early reflections and/or reverb out of phase to the left and right channel. As all the out-of-phase parts are routed to the back speakers by the PLII decoder, this would be a result as described. If they do it as simple as this, a fold-down to mono would eliminate all the AMSI processing. But how to check this?

Martin

 

Dilemma

My Amazon.de order arrived Monday, containing the Gulda Beethoven piano sonatas on Eloquence. Other items on the order delayed shipment. In the meantime, I bought the Brilliant Classics set as well. One will be a Christmas gift to my father-in-law, and I will keep one. Both sets ended up costing about $38. I erred in my earlier currency conversion.

Now comes the dilemma---which to keep, and which to gift. The Brilliant Classics set contains all 32 sonatas on 9 discs. The Eloquence set is 12 discs and adds Beethoven's five piano concertos with Horst Stein conducting the Vienna Philharmonic. I already have a nice EMI set of the concertos with Emil Gilels and Szell/Cleveland.

Both boxes are sturdy. The Eloquence set is mastered with Ambient Surround Imaging, and my father-in-law, unlike me, has a surround sound system.

I welcome your recommendations.

 

I wish I could compare them!! Do you hear big differences and can you describe them?
I wonder what is added on the Eloquence, that pressing the ProLogicII button will have much effect? Artificial, out-of-phase reverb, as I suspected above?

Martin

 

Sealed

Both are sealed, Martin. I am as curious as you are to compare, though. I might get that opportunity at Christmas, once my father-in-law opens his gift. I'm not sure I can wait that long.

 

I decided

I opened the Eloquence German set, and listened. The sound quality is very satisfying. This is a 1967 analog set, so some hiss is present, just enough for comfort. The Brilliant Classics sound was described by Classicstoday's Jed Distler as "closely miked, slightly dry, yet full-bodied and viscerally impactful engineering." That description applies to the Eloquence set as well, in my opinion.

Since the AMSI process is said to add some "additional ambience information," I was concerned that this would be a distraction in stereo. I heard no problems such as an artificially wide or shifting soundstage. If any reverb was added, it was done judiciously. This is a warm-sounding piano recording that I can listen to at loud volumes without hurting my ears.

The performances are superb. Friedrich Gulda is secure in his technical ability. He plays generally fast, but not heavy handed. He avoids overuse of rubato to create drama, letting the dynamics of the music dictate the emotion. This runs counter to the more romanticized accounts popular in Gulda's time. While I might not enjoy Chopin played this way, the style suits Beethoven perfectly.

I am thoroughly enjoying this set. Thanks, Martin, for your fine recommendation. Which Gulda Mozart recordings were you also recommending?

 

Well, there are six Piano Concertos, especially four with Abbado on DG are superb. Two were with Harnoncourt on Teldec, and are now available in some Warner budget series.
There is a single Sonata CD on DG, which is outstanding!
For the more advanced listener is the recently released "The Gulda Mozart Tapes" (Deutsche Grammophon). Gulda tried to to a complete recoding in the early 80s - in his favorite hotel, on a Bösendorfer. But he never approved the release. The masters are lost, so these 3 CDs come from cassette copies. Not No-Noised, but sometimes a bit harsh and fuzzy. Essential Mozart-playing, but a mixed bag in sound quality.
I'd say: buy them all. I saw him twice with Mozart-only-programs, and for me he is even more THE Mozart pianist...
In concert, he used to play a lot of improvised figures, when it comes to the repeat - but he never did that on record. I liked that a lot, I'm sure it was usual practice in Mozart's days.

Martin

 

I have a few Eloquence CDs, some made of analog recordings, others of early digital recordings. Most sound ok (nothing special though), but a few have a quite diffuse and unnatural sound. As I don't have a non-AMSI CD of the same recordings, I can't tell if this is a problem of the original recording or the AMSI remastering.

I'm glad Universal only uses this gimmick on that budget series, and not on the Originals and other mid price series