The Doors s/t stereo mix. What were they thinking?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Another Side, Dec 7, 2005.

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  1. Another Side

    Another Side Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    San Francisco
    I was listening to the DCC The Doors on my iPod on the way to work recently. I had never noticed what a bad stereo mix this is. Basically it's only Morrison in the center. Robbie and Manzarek are on one channel and Densmore and Manzarek's keyboard bass are on the other channel. Once in a long while there is a part with piano in the center. That is tough to listen to with headphones. Having only Morrison in the center channel makes him sound very uninvolved with the rest of the music.

    Why wouldn't they mix it with the drums, the keyboard bass, and Morrison in the center, and Robbie on the left and Manzarek on the right? That would sound pretty good. I guess one answer may have to do with how the tracks were laid down. If the focus was mono, then they wouldn't have taken much care as to how it was recorded, and Manzarek's organ and Robbie's guitar could be on the same track. Any thoughts?
     
  2. LarryDavenport

    LarryDavenport New Member

    Location:
    Seattle, WA, USA
    Didn't Steve do the DCC?
     
  3. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    It's been discussed many, many times here why this album was recorded the way it was. Do a search.
     
  4. Another Side

    Another Side Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    San Francisco
    Sorry, Steve, but this is one of those things that is hard to search for. I did do a search, but I could not easily find a discussion on how the album was recorded other than that the vocals were overdubbed and a session bass player overdubbed some bits as well.
     
  5. MikeP5877

    MikeP5877 V/VIII/MCMLXXVII

    Location:
    OH
    Funny, I used to hate the stereo mix until I bought the DCC CD last year. I always thought it sounded anemic on vinyl and the early CD issue. The DCC sounds so full-bodied in comparison.
     
  6. Another Side

    Another Side Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    San Francisco
    Don't get me wrong. The DCC sounds great. It's just the mix that is odd.
     
  7. Another Side

    Another Side Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    San Francisco
    So I did a bit more of a thorough search, and as I suspected the album was recorded on 4 track. Someone please correct me if I have this wrong. From what I understand, the basic track was laid down with organ, guitar, drums and a "scratch" vocal. I would assume one track each. Then a bounce was made, I would guess to free up two tracks. Robbie Krieger and Manzarek were put in one track 1, Densmore on on track 2, the overdubbed bass on track 3 and Morrison on the final track. Is that right?
     
  8. Lord Hawthorne

    Lord Hawthorne Currently Untitled

    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    It was recorded on a four-track machine. If I recall correctly, you could only pan one track on the original board, so they chose the vocal. The 5.1 mix comes out next year.
     
  9. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    I kind of like it. But, then, I have never heard the mono version. I'm judging by the undecoded HDCD CDs in the boxed set...
     
  10. Another Side

    Another Side Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    San Francisco
  11. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Oh, God, stop me from typing this yet again. Nope. FINGERS TYPING; CANNOT STOP!!


    First four track pass:

    Live, track one: Organ bass/drums
    Sel-Sync, track two: First lead vocal
    Sel-Sync, track three: Second lead vocal or instrument o/d
    Live, track four: guitar/organ


    FIRST BOUNCE:

    Track one: Organ bass/Drums
    Track two: Two vocal tracks combined
    Track three: Bass guitar o/d
    Track four: guitar/organ

    MIXED IN STEREO:

    Track one to left channel
    Track two to center
    Track four to either side or middle
    Track four to right channel.

    All except THE END which was:

    1: drums/organ bass
    2. live lead vocal
    3. organ
    4. guitar
     
  12. Another Side

    Another Side Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    San Francisco
    Thanks, Steve. I just deleted my post that says essentially the same thing, except that I hadn't figured on the two vocals being bounced on the first bounce. So there was never a chance to separate Krieger and Manzarek since they were on the same track to begin with.
     
  13. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    The album was originally felt to be finished with the first four-track tape.

    They had second thoughts.

    They did the bounce just to make a blank track to add the bass guitar (which I feel was truly needed). Essentially this album was mixed during the four-track to four-track bounce.
     
  14. Another Side

    Another Side Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    San Francisco
    So that's why the combined the tracks the way they did. It's a pity, though, it would be great to hear Krieger and Manzarek out of different speakers. That would sound great. :thumbsup:
     
  15. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Well, let me just say this. On the next album they went eight-track so you got your guitar/organ separation but to many (including me) their music took on a hard, thin edge, totally due to the new solid state technology. I prefer the tube magic sound of the first album.

    I had to work very hard in mastering to get any warmth out of STRANGE DAYS, etc.
     
  16. Grant

    Grant Life is a rock, but the radio rolled me!

    Have Karla tie your fingers with tape whenever you get that urge again! :D
     
  17. LarryDavenport

    LarryDavenport New Member

    Location:
    Seattle, WA, USA
    That's what "cut & paste" is for Steve. :p
     
  18. Jose Jones

    Jose Jones Outstanding Forum Member

    Location:
    Detroit, Michigan
    Is there any kind of consensus then, that the first Doors album has the best (ie, "warmest") sonics?

    I'm not enough of a Doors fan to to be able to instantly hear in my head the differences between the albums. I do recall though, that "20th Century Fox" had some nice deep bass notes that I don't remember hearing in subsequent albums....
     
  19. Jose Jones

    Jose Jones Outstanding Forum Member

    Location:
    Detroit, Michigan
    Somebody mentioned a forthcoming 5.1 mix of the first album......if the organ and guitar are on the same track, what is the point of doing a surround-sound mix? I don't get it. It doesn't seem like there are enough discreet parts to make that kind of a mix.
     
  20. Another Side

    Another Side Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    San Francisco
    I hadn't thought of it that way. But you're right, the first album has a totally different sound/warmth to it.
     
  21. Evan

    Evan Senior Member

    Something tells me that they will be using "technology" to accomplish the 5.1 mix. God help us. I'm sticking' to my DCC copy.
     
  22. Ed Bishop

    Ed Bishop Incredibly, I'm still here

    For the debut, they probably won't use the rears so discretely, though there's a little room to make it interesting.

    ED [​IMG]
     
  23. Lord Hawthorne

    Lord Hawthorne Currently Untitled

    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    Bruce Botnick did the surround mixes.
     
  24. Bob Lovely

    Bob Lovely Super Gort In Memoriam

    I love the original Stereo mix "as is". It sure sold many records years ago...

    Bob- :)
     
  25. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Agreed. It's a powerful mix, impossible to duplicate. I've tried from the four-track, Mr. Botnick has tried, too hard to replicate that exact "sound"...
     
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