ELP K2 HD CDs Are In!

I just received mine from Japan. I think this is the first K2 24-Bit HD series from Victor Japan. I put on the first album in my car on the way to work and I must say it sounds pretty amazing. Victor Japan are winning me over lately. They never use noise reduction and that is the same here. Nice and hissy. In fact, it almost seems as if they usually run the tapes they are sent. Still, it's nice to have "super coding," but for me, the question with them is the source tape!

So, will this compare to the much loved Barry Diament version on Atlantic? Well, I'll soon compare and report. I have that version also.

But my intial impression was that it sounded like I was playing the old vinyl on a really magic stereo. Really deep bass. And it doesn't sound EQd at all. I can always tell by the sound of the cymbals and Palmer's cymbals sound spot on.

Initial impression is that these might just be winners! But I'll need more time to draw any definitive conclusions so don't rush out and buy them all just yet if you trust my ears. I need some time here, but I will say that the s/t sounds pretty darn good thus far! Perhaps a *bit* boomy in the bass, and they are cut a bit hot like all K2s, but no compression at all that I can hear, and there is a bit of breath there.

Btw, on the shrinkwrap there are stickers indicating a 35th Anniversary Tour with several dates in Japan! I can't read Japanese. Is ELP reuniting?

 

JeffMCarney - what's HD? I only heard of first 5 ELP LPs issued on K2 years ago (and I have em all). And weren't all K2 releases 20-bit?

 

Victor Japan just reissued all the K2s in 20-bit, but they also issued the first five albums in 24-bit K2 HD. It's their latest technology.

And you can just call me Jeff, Anton.

 

OK, Jeff! How do the new K2's compare to the old ones? I know you had 'em. Did they issue the 74-78 stuff as well this time?

 

Jeff,

I assume you got all 5 titles?? Any difference in packaging compared to the older K2 releases?


Looking forward to your reviews of the discs!!

 

Here's what they did:

Reissue EVERYTHING from s/t to Love Beach in 20-bit K2 papersleeves.

Issue s/t through BSS in 24-bit K2 HD sound. They are in papersleeves with gold tinted OBIs and somewhat gold tinted CDs.

 

Barry, I have ordered all the 20-bit from s/t through Works. I did not get the 20-bit Tarkus today and have it on the way, but I've heard it before and it's the same as they've issued twice before. I didn't bother with Works 2 or Love Beach. And I probably won't hang onto Works. I've almost no interest in ELP after 1974. The triple live is where my interest ends. I've heard all previous 20-bit K2s through 1974. Of those, I liked _Tarkus_ and _BSS_. Trilogy I didn't like at all. The s/t was good but not sure it was as good as the Castle or the much loved (here, anyway) Atlantic. PaaE... well, I'm not sure. In fact, all of these I really intend to compare now, but it's a pretty big project. As far as _Welcome Back..._, I have heard the Victor Japan 20-bit jewelcase before and truth be told I am convinced that every single CD made of this album uses the Victory mastering which was done with Sonic Solutions. All CD issues of this are bascially the same.

Anyway, in *addition* to the above I also purchased the new 24-bit K2 HD titles of s/t through BSS. So that's 5 titles in this new format in all. I highly doubt Victor Japan will issue any other titles in this format, but maybe...

So I intend to compare the Victor 20-bits with the 24-bits (where applicable). The 24-bits with Castles and Atlantics where I can, etc.

 

this is what I wrote in another thread:
" I just found that the K2HD cds (new Elp japanese cd) can be decoded to 24 bit 192khz using the JVC propietary CC up-bit converter. well another hi rez cd compatible with cd players. (kind of HDCD)
CC converter also can decode another compressed formats like DTS, dolby or MP3.
Also JVC just put in the marker their mini 6GB portable audio player with this CC decoder.
http://www.jvc-victor.co.jp/audio_w/product/dap/xa-hd500/

 

Yes, I saw this. Interesting. Of course, I'm not going to buy a player to decode these, but cool to know JVC are going further in the hi rez market!

 

English press release for the HD500 http://www.victor.co.jp/english/press/2005/xa-hd500.pdf

 

Thanks Jeff - I have the K2's of S/T through BSS so I will be highly interested in your comparisons betwen the new discs with the older K2's.

 

So, if played on a normal CD player without the converter, will these sound any different than the original K2s?

 

Okay, here's an update. I don't have much time as I'm on my way out in just a bit. Note that I have no special "decoder," this is redbook reality.

Compared the first album:

20-bit K2 Vs 24-bit K2 HD

The 24-bit is very similar. It is slightly crisper, not in an EQ type of way, but in a way I don't think I've personally encountered. Even the tape hiss present sounds slightly digital. Almost as if the transfer process is so tight that it sounds a tad *too* tight. There is no give in the thing. I don't know how else to describe it. There is no difference in EQ settings at all that I can detect. It just sounds slightly tighter.

Okay, so not much difference at all, but maybe a nod could go to the new one. I don't know, this is a toss up.

BUT next, I took out my old original Atlantic mastered by Barry Diament.

Guess what? The old Atlantic just walks all over the K2 HD, and eats it for breakfast, spits it out and burps.

That old Atlantic is so much better it is *INSANE*! It has breath that is completly stripped on the K2s. The K2 HD sounded completely stuffed up in comparison and the bass was so bloated it stripped the recording of its natural air.

I did these tests on my stereo. I have two CD players and one has an internal volume control so I was able to really level match pretty darn well. I also have another way I test but no time to go into it now.

Anyway, trust me, the original Atlantic (one of those good old WEA pressings) just blows this new thing away. And the 24-bit and 20-bit K2s are nearly identical.

So I have my winner. That old Atlantic!

Ymmv, of course.

 

Yes. Slightly.

 

Here's some info:


http://cgi.ebay.com/EMERSON-LAKE-PA...Z4773733235QQcategoryZ307QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

Good review Jeff and tell me... why am I not surprised?

 

Yeah, I cranked the original Atlantic of the s/t in my car on the way to the office this morning, and it just plain breathes!

The K2 approach is interesting. Maybe their tape is different or this represents the work they did when they issued the ELP stuff originally, but basically it's as if they stuffed up the entire bass spectrum. It's not bad. Like all K2s, there isn't a hint of NR and I don't detect any compression either, but ths signal has really been pushed to the limit. The bass was already pretty deep and rich on that recording, so I'm not sure it needed much help. And it doesn't seem they did much (if anything) with the high bands at all. That part I'm okay with because this is one of Eddie Offord's bright, crisp engineering jobs in the first place. But I think the bass is just too goosed on the K2 and the new K2 HD doesn't change that. It's just a transfer of the same mastering, near as I can tell.

 

what about the tarkus cd. my old k2 has some clippling moments on the long track Tarkus between Iconoclast and Mass. the MFSL cd is much better. not sure about the ATLANTIC issue

 

I haven't listened to Tarkus yet, but I've owned the last K2 of it. Anyway, I suspect whatever was there will still be there.

 

How do these all compare to the Victory or Rhino US copies?

 

Well, I don't know, John. But I can tell you that ttbomk, only _Trilogy_ and BSS were remastered by Rhino. I believe the rest just used the Victory mastering.

Some of the Victory issues were done by Joseph Palmaccio. BSS, for example, is stunning. Castle used that mastering for their issue (the corrected one) and it beats the original Atlantic, IMO. On _Trilogy_, the original Atlantic beats the Castle, which probably used the Rhino mastering but I'm not sure.

It's all pretty confusing, but I have a feeling not nearly as bad as it might seem.

 

I'm not quite as down on the K2s as some people are here. I think the original ELP K2s sound pretty good (I've got them all except Love Beach) but I don't have any early Atlantic CDs to compare them with. Pictures At An Exhibition never sounded better, to my ears (granted, it's a live recording...and was never a particularly good sounding record).

Also have most of the Procol Harum K2s. Grand Hotel sounds great, IMHO.

 

Here's the RMS power average on "The Barbarian." Keep in mind that this tune has some piano bits with lighter drums and bass and does not pound away the entire time!

K2 HD: left -11.07 right -11.69
K2: left -11.99 right -12.77
Atlantic: left -17.06 right -18.88

 

I don't know... I might be changing my mind on this.

You see, one thing the K2s do is cut some of that high end and I think Palmer's hi hat sounds a bit different. Maybe even better.

At this point I still need to do more comparisons, but the breath is most definitely gone on the K2s.

 

Okay folks. Compare for yourself and share your opinions. These are full, uncompressed .wav files.

The Barbarian - K2 HD
http://z10.zupload.com/download.php?file=getfile&filepath=846

The Barbarian - K2
http://z10.zupload.com/download.php?file=getfile&filepath=872

The Barbarian - US Atlantic (19120-2) WEA Pressing
http://z10.zupload.com/download.php?file=getfile&filepath=876