I have issues with Genesis Platinum Collection

I listened to the Platinum Collection again today. *This is the Genesis 3 CD greatest hits type set that has mostly remixed versions of songs. The remixes are weird. There's parts missing, balances are different, the snare drum is mixed too low and they are heavily EQ'd and compressed. I want to post a clip that should show you why I was so disappointed with the sound of this set.

What you'll hear is Turn It On Again clips from:
1. The Definitive Edition Remaster
2. The Platinum Collection Remix

I'm not endorsing the Definitive Collection as the best sounding version of Duke but it makes for a fair comparison. *There's been no EQ or compression added to either of these clips, I only adjusted the levels so the lead vocals are a little closer in overall loudness which does not change the tonality.

Listen to how heavily EQ'd and pinched the vocal sounds. *You can really hear the megaphone sound the EQ gives to Phil's voice. *You can also hear how the heavy 2 buss compression is holding the track back and taking away the punch and dynamics making the song sound flat.

Turn It On Again

 

Holy *****, I can even hear it on my bad computer speakers. Geez, that's awful sounding. Well, methinks I'll be avoiding the Laudanum Collection Remix, then. Reminds me that I gotta get that non-Definitive Duke one of these days.

Geoff

 

That's the only one I don't have. I wonder how different it sounds?

BTW, all the US vinyl I have is wimpy sounding. I also have a UK pressing but haven't played it yet.

 

There was a thread on this very recently -- last couple of weeks I think. Can't find it with Google searching, but I know it's there. A very detailed comparison between the original issue and the Definitive Edition.

Geoff

 

Not having that search function anymore is very constraining.

 

Why would a remix engineer remove so much sound data that is hard-wired in my brain? I thought a remix was to enhance sounds or modernize production values!?

Furthermore, why were some songs not remixed?

 

Because they had pity on us. Why ruin more good music with bad remixes?

Seriously, it's because Hugh Padgham is an amazing engineer and remixing his stuff is a sign of an untamed ego. I have no idea why they felt it necessary to remix any of Hugh's stuff.

 

Well, you are talking about two evils here, IMO.

First, Davis' DE Remaster of _Duke_ is clearly beaten by the original Atlantic (both Japan and US pressed discs), as I wrote about here recently. While less noticeable on "Turn It On Again," try comparing the DE "Behind The Lines" with the original Atlantic. That original Atlantic may be a bit dull, but it explodes out of the speakers in a way the DE can't even dream of.

Second, that remix is utterly hilarious. It's now a hard rock pop song with the guitar way up front. Total, utter nonsense, IMO. And listen to what he did with the drum sound. How anyone could make the drums on _Duke_ sound worse, I don't know, but he's managed it. Thay are now thinner and more digital.

Here's another option:

Buy an old Atlantic pressing of _Duke_. Listen to it after you've EQd the living hell out of it and save 20 bucks when the new issue hits.

 

The remix sounds like the engineer stripped off a layer of reverb that Phil's vocal had on the "definitive edition," which is a good thing.

Otherwise, the remix does sound a little flat, compressed, and EQ'ed to emphasize the top end. I don't find it too objectionable sound-quality wise, but if it sounds this different from the original, i wonder if it is in line with how the artists wanted the track to sound?

 

I have the LP, original US release. I don't think I need anything else . . .

 

Eeeek. I haven't played it since that fateful week my friend brought it to me from Paris.

Jamie, have you been allowed back on the Genesis forum since?

 

Um, I sorta posted this over there too. I think Nick's still on vacation though.

 

I have never heard a copy of Duke on vinyl that sounded good. I have a US, German and Japanese. The current CD is much better than all of them. I never bothered to pick up a UK.

 

Do you have a link to the previous Duke thread?

 

Actually, the Simply Vinyl version of Duke sounds dynamic and great to my ears (their pressings are almost bereft of any surface noise!) My only vinyl basis of comparison that I have though is the U.S. Atlantic vinyl. Even with over 55 minutes crammed on one vinyl LP, the Simply Vinyl version still sounds better than the Definitive Edition CD.

As for the remixes, I haven't listened to that collection for a while now, but the songs I had the most trouble with were Undertow and Follow You Follow Me, which have the vocals way up front. Undertow in particular brought some backing vocals way up front, and I could understand why they were originally much lower in the mix. The problem with any of the mid-to-late 70's Dave Hentschel produced stuff (Trick, Wind, Three & Duke) being remixed is that his production style was unique in that the vocals drums and bass were a bit more subdued, and today's trends dictate the exact opposite. I always liked how his mixes enabled Tony Banks' keyboards to shine through (especially on Duke), which was very different by the time of the Invisible Touch album in 1986.

I did think that some of the songs did not stray too far from the original, but my fear with doing the remixes as part of the eventual multi-channel releases is that the remixes will themselves become the definitive versions. Even when the original might have had some technical limitations (and even mistakes), I would rather see them remain instead of having a George Lucas-style historical revisionism going on. On the definitive edition of Foxtrot, they ended up fixing a note in Supper's Ready that was in the wrong key due to the original tape splice. After listening to the "mistake" for well over a decade, I remember hearing it "fixed" on the remaster and thought that it did not sound right!

Cheers,

Jerry

 

Jerry, in Undertow, you must mean those annoying AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH's that come at you like a punch in the nose. IIRC, they are NOT EVEN IN THE ORIGINAL! They were mixed out! Hentschel must have deemed them unnecessary......so why they brought them out for the new mix, I dunno.

 

I remember you emailed a few songs to me before my CD arrived. It's really weird to hear those vocals come in unexpectedly, and so loud too!

I guess we get married to the way things used to be. Still, the remixes just aren't good mixes.

 

I can't find it on google at the moment, Jaime. It can't be more than 2 weeks old or so, I should think. Let me sum it up and I have since learned a bit more anyhow:

There are three versions of Duke I've compared:

1. The DE
2. The Japan pressed Atlantic - which I've just learned is the same as the JVC pressed US Atlantic. The TT of this is 55:09
3. The US (WEA pressed) Atlantic - TT: 55:06

IMO, the US pressing on WEA (55:06) is the winner by a hair. While # 2 has a touch more air and treble which is noticeable on "Behind The Lines," it sounds *slightly* more digital on "Misunderstanding," Turn It On Again," and "Duke's Travel's." The US WEA is a bit dull, but it sounds very analog. You can just crank it and earbleed is almost impossible to locate. Phil's cymbals are the main key here. On the WEA they just sound perfect, to my ears.

But either way one chooses, I should think almost anyone here would concur that either # 2 or # 3 smoke # 1.

 

Oh, and as far as that digital recreation of history that is _The Platinum Collection_. I have no comment other than I don't own it nor have any interest it. In fact, I'm probably going to skip all the Genesis SACDs because I am adamantly against remixing classic albums.

 

I just heard the remixed version of "Follow You Follow Me" in a Walgreen's the other day, and it just sounded wrong. Those vocals up that front is just plain dumb, IMO.

I mean, consider this:

I suspect most Genesis fans are above 30 because Genesis is an older band.
Hence, most Genesis fans have been listening to the these songs for years.
So, how will most of their fanbase ever hear those songs in a new mix and think they sound right?

I hope the delay in issuing the SACDs is because they are rethinking this nonsense of issuing albums in remixed form.

 

Is it this one?

 

Daved64 and I took quite a beating at the Genesis site over this. They were all saying the remixes are so much better than the originals, which obviously isn't true.

 

That's the one.

 

Thank you!