Led Zeppelin Remasters

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Anals Of Rock, Aug 3, 2005.

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  1. Anals Of Rock

    Anals Of Rock New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    UK
    I've heard that, in fact, Jimmy Page didn't have anything to do with the mastering of the Remasters sets of the early 90's, or the BBC Sessions of 97 (I think) and "How The West Was Won" from a couple of years ago.
    Does anyone know if this is actually the case, what (if any) anecdotal evidence there is to support this and, finally, who did do the mastering and/or mixing on these releases?
     
  2. RJL2424

    RJL2424 Forum Resident

    Actually, Jimmy Page isn't directly involved in the remastering of the Led Zeppelin catalogue. He merely supervised the remastering sessions; George Marino at Sterling Sound actually did the remastering work.
     
  3. Anals Of Rock

    Anals Of Rock New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    UK

    Was that the three different 'jobs' above - or which ones?
     
  4. RJL2424

    RJL2424 Forum Resident

    I know only the early '90s remasters sets and the mid-'90s individual remasters. I don't have any copies of the BBC sessions and the How The West Was One live comp on CD.
     
  5. dprokopy

    dprokopy Senior Member

    Location:
    Near Seattle, WA
    I thought all of the ninties releases - the two box sets, the "complete" box set, and the individual albums - were all the same remasters? :confused:
     
  6. Anals Of Rock

    Anals Of Rock New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    UK

    I think they are. I was asking wehether the BBC sessions and "HTWWW" were done the same way (mastering wise)?

    Oh, and what does everyone think of the Remastering jobs?
     
  7. RJL2424

    RJL2424 Forum Resident

    They will suffice, until you get a better-sounding copy (on vinyl or CD). None of the remasters sound as good as the best pressings of this same material.
     
  8. Anals Of Rock

    Anals Of Rock New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    UK
    Really? Are the best pressings the vinyl ? Someone once told me the vinyl currently from Canada is the best for Zep?
     
  9. johmbolaya

    johmbolaya Active Member

    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    My magazines are in storage, and I'm sure there's a transcription of it somewhere, but Jimmy Page did a series of interviews that were very in-depth, getting technical about not only what kind of guitars he used, but also how the songs were recorded as well as the process in the recent remasters. I'm sure it's been discussed here.

    It's very interesting. I haven't picked up the remastered CD's, but I do have a few of the Classic Records 180g pressings, and I did like what I heard. I still have the first CD pressings and don't plan on tossing those out any time soon).
     
  10. Andreas

    Andreas Senior Member

    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    I compared the original CDs and the remasters of III and Houses Of The Holy. In both cases, I preferred the original CD.

    In the case of III, the remaster was much brighter for every song, which made the drums sound thin and flat, and the vocals shrill. Also, the decays sound unnatural. There is the theory that dolby was not correctly decoded for the remaster.

    In the case of HOTH, the difference was more subtle. But whenever there was a difference, I preferred the mastering on the older CD. Here are my notes:
    The remaster is louder, all tracks peak at 100%, but there seems to be no apparent clippings, apart from a few samples.
    The remaster is a bit brighter, but the difference is small.
    Track 1: Almost identical.
    Track 2: Older CD has more stereo separation, remaster sounds narrowed and compressed. The remaster has a higher average volume and more bass, even if both are normalized.
    Track 3: Older CD is a bit more lifelike, the remaster has a somewhat recessed sound.
    Track 4: The talking on the older CD sounds much more real. The remaster has more top end throughout the song.
    Track 5: The remastered CD sounds louder, even if both are normalized.
    Track 6: Drums on the remaster sound more aggressive. There seems to be more bass on the old CD. Most aggressive mastering on the remaster.
    Track 7: Again, some top end seems to be enhanced on the remaster.
    Track 8: Almost identical.

    In both cases, I did not hear any difference in fidelity, i.e. they sounded to be from the same tapes. The exception is The Rain Song, which is a bit narrowed on the remaster and sounds like coming from a copy tape. (I am speculating here.)

    The theory that the original CD were made from inferior tapes seems untrue for these two albums.
     
  11. dprokopy

    dprokopy Senior Member

    Location:
    Near Seattle, WA
    By the way, am I going crazy (don't answer that), or am I remembering this correctly... weren't there two mixes of "The Song Remains the Same" (the song, not the live album) floating around at one point? I seem to recall that the original CD had one mix, and the first box set used a different mix. I seem to recall different stereo placements for some of the guitars or something. It's all a bit fuzzy now, though. Anyone know which mix was "correct" (i.e., the same as the original vinyl version)?
     
  12. Randy W

    Randy W Original Member

    The remastered CDs sound terrible IMO. Vinyl is the best way to go with Led Zep - RL inscribed US originals, Classic or German vinyl.
     
  13. sharedon

    sharedon Forum Zonophone

    Location:
    Boomer OK
  14. marcb

    marcb Senior Member

    Location:
    DC area
    FYI, there are only 2 RL inscribed, i.e. Bob Ludwig mastered, Led Zep LPs. They are LZ2 and Houses of the Holy.

    LZ2 is difficult to find :( ...extemely difficult to find in VG+ or better condition :mad: ...and apparently almost impossible to find with quiet vinyl. :realmad:

    HOTH is fairly easy to find. :thumbsup:
     
  15. dprokopy

    dprokopy Senior Member

    Location:
    Near Seattle, WA
    FYI, my recollection (I don't own the originals anymore) was that the original Zep CD's came out over a period of time, and not in chronological order. In fact, it seemed to me they came out in order of popularity/sales, with IV being the first released, and the debut being last. And at the time, I kinda felt that the sound quality tended to get better as they went along, with the debut sounding nearly perfect. The CDs came out over a period of a year or two, and I figured they just got better at doing the transfers (or tracking down the original tapes).

    Also, the initial pressing of Physical Grafitti was lacking the bit of studio chatter at the end of "In My Time of Dying," but this was restored for later releases. (My buddy in high school had a BMG Music Club issue that had it restored, for example.)
     
  16. bartels76

    bartels76 Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    CT
    I have a Guitar World feature from 1990 & 1993 and Jimmy Page was there during the remastering process. George Marino did it though. Jimmy Page supervised and obviously learned to do it as he remastered the recent live set.
     
  17. Aggie87

    Aggie87 Gig 'Em!

    Location:
    Carefree, AZ
    ...somebody PLEASE tell me the subheading for this thread is really meant to say "Annals of Rock" :p
     
  18. bartels76

    bartels76 Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    CT
    "We approached Set 2 (Box 2) the same as the 4 CD box set released last year. George & I transfered the original analogue tapes to a digital format and we used some modern EQ's to make them sparkle." Jimmy Page Guitar World Dec 1993 talking about Box Set 2
     
  19. heavyd

    heavyd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Utah
    :biglaugh:
     
  20. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    I remember reading that and with a sigh of relief I put away my money and kept the old CD's.
     
  21. MikeP5877

    MikeP5877 V/VIII/MCMLXXVII

    Location:
    OH
    My old non-remastered CD of LZ IV has indexing problems where if I skip to a specific track, the very beginning of the song is clipped. On the remaster, "Going To California" fades a few seconds early, why I'll never know.
     
  22. bartels76

    bartels76 Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    CT
    I guess I'm kinda ruined as those box sets and remasters are what I grew up with. I have some of their vinyl now but the vinyl isn't that hot on some of them. I'm so used to the remasters that everything else sounds funky to me.
     
  23. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialistâ„¢

    Location:
    B.C.
    Same here, only after making the mistake of buying into the first round of remasters and then having to scavenge to get back what I had previously owned realizing the errors of my ways.
     
  24. Ski Bum

    Ski Bum Happy Audiophile

    Location:
    Vail, CO
    Anals, didn't you start a thread the other day saying that discussions of different masterings were senseless? Welcome to the sense challenged.

    I am the original owner of a RL mastered Led Zep II that I bought on the first day of its release in 1969 (matrix numbers ST-A-691671-A/ST-A-691672-A; label numbers ST-A-691671PR/ST-A-691672PR). This is the most thoroughly thrashed LP I own. It suffered a LOT of playing on crappy equipment in "smoky" environments. The vinyl is noisy and the grooves have a lot of wear (though no real scratches). Even so, it sounds much better than any of the more recent releases as SD 8236 or SD 19127. It also sounds better than the Classic 180g and 200g versions (both of which suffer from EQ in the mid highs; Tom Port has some amusing commentary on this version in his website, though my views on it are not quite as extreme). Until recently, the closest competition in my collection was the MFSL version, which I also purchased new when it was released (age has some benefits).

    Very recently, I bought another RL mastered copy (used, of course) in much better condition. Amazingly, it seems to be a different cut of the same master (matrix numbers ST-A-691671/ST-A-691672; label numbers ST-A-691671 CP/ST-A-691672 CP). Whereas the deadwax on my original LP is very narrow (side 2 is absurdly narrow), the deadwax on the new acquisition is normal width. While possibly attributable to its much better condition, the new acquisition is also somewhat louder and much clearer, tighter and more dynamic. Indeed, the new one may simply be the best sounding rock record I own (though the vinyl is far from quiet). RL knows his stuff. Does anybody know why the RL master was recut? Perhaps the narrow deadwax created a problem?
     
  25. Andreas

    Andreas Senior Member

    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    From what I have read, IV seems to be a case where the remaster is an improvement over the original CD. But I will check that for myself soon.
     
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