I just received this email from a classic records dealer

I am in the process of returning two LP's to Classic Records. They have been very good about dealing with me and have offered to take the Lp's back directly to save me having to post them back individually to the different dealers.

Judging from other threads, they obviously have a serious problem that they need to address as a matter of urgency. I wonder how long it will take them to solve it, or will they just decide that vynil is not cost effective anymore due to the high number of returns?

I hope that they do not decide to stop pressing vynil as sometimes the only way to get a quiet copy of an LP that doesn't break the bank is the Classic Records route. Unfortunately it is just far too risky to buy Classic 200g lp's at the moment unless Tom Port is willing to crack them open for you and check them before hand.

DEUTSCHE VERSION
_________________

Liebe Kunden und Freunde,

da ich in letzter Zeit immer mehr Reklamationen über die schlechten 200gr
Pressungen und mangelhafte Kontrolle von Classic Records Neuerscheinungen
erhalten habe, möchte ich Ihnen mitteilen, dass ich bis auf weiteres keine LPs
mehr von Classic Records anbieten werde. Ich bitte Sie daher, bei anderen
Händlern zu bestellen. Da ich Ihnen und mir Ärger ersparen möchte, habe ich mich
zu diesem Schritt entschlossen. Ich hoffe, Sie haben dafür Verständnis.

Freundliche Grüße, Heinrich

ENGLISH VERSION
________________

Dear Customers and Friends,

as i get more and more returns from the poor 200gr pressings from Classic
Records, i like to inform that i will not offer them again in the near future.
If you like to order LPs from Classic Records, please order them from other
dealers. As i do not want anger for you and me, i have decided to act in this
way. I hope that you will understand my decision.

All the best, Heinrich

 

Classic Recs needs to stop doing the 200g thing. Plain and simple. You can make great vinyl, but it's that extra 20 grams that causes a lot of problems in pressing and QC.

 

Besides messing with the TT alignment.

 

I agree. But, why those extra 20 grams cause so much problem?

Besides causing the TT alignment problem Jamie pointed out.

 

It doesn't necessarily have to be the extra 20 grams that are causing the problem. maybe it is the SV-P (Super Vinyl Profile) in which the record is flat all the way across. Maybe the record presses can't get the molten vinyl to flow and perfectly form the record because there isn't any slope to the
"platter" area.


Of course, this is just a theory. I also wish Classic would give up the 200 gram SV-P pressings. I've had so much trouble that I've stopped buying records pressed by Classic. I've spent $5 returning defective vinyl too many times. I really want to get the Hendrix at Woodstock and Who's Next, but I've already returned a copy of each. I also has to return a copy of the Dylan Bootleg Collection Vol. 6 (1964) box set, which I replaced with the CDs for $9.98 from yourmusic.com.

When Classic announced that they were going to do all of the Who albums I was thrilled. I won't be buying them.

No if they released The Beatles that would be another story.....

Maybe Steve can chime in on this subject?????

 

There's always going to be thin and thick records. Going from a repro Living Stereo at 200g to a UK copy of Beatles For Sale is going to be a difference between 3-4mm of VTA. Most anything should be able to accurately track both without adjustment.

I don't think the "Quiex" formulation does well under extended pressing time (especially for 200g) and supposedly it does pose problems for plating longevity. However, Classic Records hasn't always had perfection when it came to 180's either.

Oh, and then getting some really common OJC Lps from Fantasy for $9/ea and hearing some of the best cut, best plated, very quiet Lps really made me wonder "why the hype". IMHO, I think Classic Records is asking RTI to do something very difficult both with the design and formulation they are using and it never worked out very well. To boot, I think ClassicRecs is skipping the QC at RTI? What would explain that it's mostly CR product that's poor?

Plus, it's a $35 price tag for a single record sounding like it's a used $2 piece, AudioAsylum has hudreds of posts about people having trouble with 200g's, and distributors are canceling because of it.

Bernie's doing all the cutting and whatever is happening there seems always a tad bright, sometimes to sibilence.

I would love to buy some Ellington or a couple of Blue Notes but...

 

I've resorted to buying Classic vinyl from themusic.com. They hand select the vinyl at no extra cost and the results have been great.

 

Hey there, Gang at Cheers!

I remembered a similar thread (or a thread on a similar topic), this might refresh your memory. I don't know where the "original" link is, but the following quote can be found in post #20 at this link: http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=49598&highlight=Tom+Port

Scott

 

JMO, but for the price they charge, all Classic Records regardless of where you buy them should be hand selected to begin with. Do we really have to pay extra for QC? What I think the European dealer is saying in mambo's post is that Classic is not happily exchanging large quantities of records with problems and the dealer is not going to be the one to absorb the loss caused by returns. Retuning records from Europe costs a bundle in postage.

 

I just received as a gift the 200 gram Crosby Stills & Nash 45 rpm set (4 single sided discs). The discs are perfect and sound terrific (demo quality stuff). I wonder if there is some benefit to pressing the 200 gram LPs on only one side?

 

Yes, Classic gets to charge more for 4 LPs rather than 1.

 

VTA is definately critical with this issue. You are talking of a possible 75 gram difference in weight- a possible 38% difference. Set the height a few mm up or down and the results can be astounding. This whole issue is totally a QC thing. I've spend enough time in Quality to know - SPC, time, sampling plans, quality of materials, equipment- it's all relative- and it's all relative to the bottom line. Quality control also covers cost of quality, which unfortunately leads to unpopular decisions and a lesser product. I've said it B4 here, and I'm sure it won't go over big, but the Classic Record 180/200 gr. I have are very quiet. Spent the last several hours listening and found them to be more quiet than my DCC and AP vinyl. Don't get me wrong, my SH CCR/Cosmo and Rondstadt and others get heavy play here, but quite a few of the Classic Records are more quiet. Simply Vinyl also seems to get it right. Maybe I'm lucky in CR and unlucky in DCC. Possibly I have Acoustic Sounds to thank for that as most CR's have come from there.

 

Why Classic perseveres with the 200 gram format is beyond me. I for one, try to avoid buying these records unless there's absolutely no other readily available alternative. When you get a good pressing, they're very good, but far too often you'll end up with a less than acceptable copy.

 

I have lots of 200g Classic pressings, and almost all of them play perfect. Only Who's next has been a real disappointment. On a few others I have some ticks and pops, but if that kind of thing bothers you you're better off with cd's. In any event, the failure rate does not seem any worse than with other labels.

I think I said the same thing in the previous Classic Records bashing thread, and in the one before that as well, and the one before that. Like DSOTM, the Beatles Blue Box, and the SH Who's next, this is the thread topic that never dies...

 

Themusic.com did not charge me extra for the hand select lps. They didn't give me a discount either. They charged full retail. I agree, that for the prices they are asking the quality should be much better and consistant.

 

I did not start this as a Classic Records bashing thread. Please note that I pointed out that Classic have been very responsive and responsible dealing with me personally. On other ocasions I have contacted them, their feedback and response has been exemplary. they obviously have an issue and reading forums like this and Audio Asylum etc, I am certain that they will get the message. At the end of the day, they make titles available to us that we might only be able to get second hand and at possibly big bucks! Let's hope they correct the problem whatever it is.

 

The bottom line is that you can get lucky or unlucky with just about any label. So far my failure rate with DCC is 0 out of 10 or so, my failure rate with Classics is 2 out of 15 or so, My failure rate with MFSL is 0 out of 30 or so, Simply vynil 0 out of 4 (yet I have heard several horror stories about these), AP 0 out of 2 (not enough to judge by yet). Going back. I have two copies of several Original 60's Jazz Lp's that were purchased sealed and one copy is noisy one isn't?? So it really is pot luck.

 

It's unfortunate Classic has so many quality control problems. I've heard their WHO'S NEXT is actually better than the MCA HEAVY VINYL version, but too many have been reported as being defective. At $30, this can be quite disappointing.

 

I'll go along with the "pot luck" theory as a consumer, you don't always know what you are going to get. Good quality does cost (and pays off as far as I'm concerned) but there must be an art to it as well as the science. I still find (in my collection as well as in second hand bins) certain LP's with beautiful sheen and close to dead quiet play and some from alledgedly budget labels. I have some UK MFP vinyl which looks and plays like new and quiet. Obviously somebody somewhere is doing something right.

 

There's at least 3-4 different pressings I know of that are going to sound better than either of these for less money. One of which that MAY still be in print and should be around $25 is the Simply Vinyl issue....

 

I believe Tom Port said that it was out of print.

BTW, SV's Tommy is still in print and it is EXCELLENT!

 

I was one of the lucky ones (this time) that got a perfect Classic Who's Next. And I think it sounds absolutely incredible. (Like others here, I have way too many copies of this title from various sources.) And this is what makes the Classic Records situation so frustrating. Because after my great luck with Who's Next, I know I will have to buy the others when they come out. But I also know that it is very unlikely my luck will hold out for long.

Also, I bought the Classic Buena Vista Social Club a while back on Steve's recommendation here. So my guess is that he has the same love/hate relationship with Classic that we all do. That one, incidentally, has no pressing issues I am aware of, but has that trademark muddy sound that most 200 gram vinyl has on my turntable without VTA adjustment. Turning it really loud lets you enjoy them on a Rega, but I can't help but wonder how good these things could sound with a VTA set specifically for them.