Beatles CD EP Collection Question (Again)

I think I have exhausted all search options as this topic has been discussed. I'd like to know WHO did the mastering, WHAT type of equipment was used, WHEN it was done, and WHERE it was done. Oh yeah, and any other miniscule piece of relevant minutia that you may know of that hasn't been discussed.

Thanks!

 

And while we're (you're!) at it, how does the mastering and sound quality of the songs differ between the EP Box and the Singles Box?

When there are shared songs between the boxes, do they share the same mastering?

Seems like in general, the EP Box receives (slightly?) higher kudos for sound on the Forum than does the Singles Box.

 

The EP box is not the same mastering as the CD box. The EP box was mastered from the EP tapes, most of which were 2nd gen from the original master. The ones that were not 2nd gen were the songs on the Long Tall Sally and MMT EP's.

The songs on the CD singles box were mastered from the single masters except for Love Me Do/PS I Love You and Please Please Me/Ask Me Why.

 

Mike, congratulations!

I think that's the most concise answer on a Beatles thread we've ever had

I believe it was Mike Jarrett who mastered the EPs.

Mike also mastered the original CDs.

The digital masters from the Please Please Me CD were mistakenly used for the Love Me Do and Please Please Me CD singles.

 

And...they corrected the bonus EP on the CD version! "This Boy" was re-channeled on the vinyl version. This was corrected when they (EMI) reissued it on CD.

 

Are these absolute facts?

I don't understand why they would use 2nd generation masters for the EP CDs when they have the original masters available.

Are the "single masters" the first generation masters or are these 2nd gen copies too? Again, why wouldn't they use the first gen tapes if they have them?

 

Malc,
I'm wondering this also. As to why then would STEVE give the EP's the higher grade as IIRC I wouldn't think he'd think that 2nd gen copied tapes would have been good enough for this set to sound so good.
This sort of goes against the grain of the UK stuff being of higher quality than any US made stuff from 2nd or supposed 3rd gen tapes.

So as you are saying or asking. Are these absolute facts? And if they are, this ones really got me itching my ear drums!! YIKES!!!

 

Hi Malc,

The EP masters were created by copying the tracks from the LP masters.


As for proof, bear with me on this...

Some of the tracks on the EPs follow the same order as the LP.

eg. The "Extracts from "A Hard Day's Night" EP has
Any Time at All
I'll Cry Instead
Things We Said Today
When I Get Home....

Notice that the first two songs are in the same order on the UK LP - as are the third and fourth songs.

Now many years ago (when I had more time on my hands) using the UK vinyl EP and LP, I did a sync up between them.

If you synced up the EP and LP on the first song, the second song would still be in sync implying they came from the same source.

Note: vinyl versions!!!

Hence the EP masters are dubs of the LP masters with the exception of "Long Tall Sally" and "Magical Mystery Tour".

Not sure about the bonus EP.

The single masters are the masters with the possible exception of "Something/Come Toether" which I assume is a dub of the album.

However, as stated earlier when compiling the CD singles, EMI mistakenly used the wrong digital masters for the "Love Me Do" and "Please Please Me" CDs.

 

Hi Nobby (I know - I should be in bed!),

seems reasonable that the original EPs were mastered from dubs of the LP masters. However, I was arguing that surely EMI would use the first generation mono masters for the compact disc edition of the EP Collection. Why would they use 2nd gen dubs when the 1st gen masters are sitting in the vault next to them?

 

I think trying to apply "reasonable" to EMI when it comes to the Beatles is impossible. They sent something like a 4th generation dub of The Magical Mystery Tour to MFSL for good ol' Stan Ricker to cut. Original Master Recordings indeed. Heheh. It doesn't seem that mentality has changed much over the years.

 

Hi Malc,


I see your point!

Probably needs a bit more investigation.

But...

Imagine it's the sixties. You'd dub the masters for the EPs.

You wouldn't cut out the LP masters, because you wouldn't then have the LP masters!

Now roll on two decades, the EP tapes are pulled out, labelled masters, so you'd use those.

They didn't use the pre master (Die Beatles) for Please Please Me, and I read here I think that Steve tried to convince Paul McCartney that he should be allowed to use a better generation tape for "Venus And Mars" rather than the pruduction master.

I guess if says "master" the "master" it is!


Sleep tight.


Nobby.

 

I know it's been brought up before, but since we have it here so succinctly....
Of the 4 songs on the 2 singles, that means that only "Love Me Do" is the "incorrect" performance/mix on the CD singles box, true? Even though the wrong masters were used, aren't the mono single and LP versions of "P.S.," "Please Please Me," and "Ask..." the same?

 

If we are assuming that this is fact, Master tapes that suffer from a "knob happy-button pushing-lever shifting" transfer compared a to conservative transfer of 2nd gens makes perfect sense.

 

Actually I'm not sure if what was said before is correct. Definitely Love Me Do is the wrong version, but I'm not sure that P.S. I Love You is taken from the LP. However, PPM and AMW are definitely the wrong versions (same performance but different master) as they were subject to extra echo to match the sound of the PPM LP. The original singles have a much more dry sound to them.

 

I think we need Steve, or one of our other experts to help us with this matter. I'm under the assumption that the tracks for EP CD Box Set are all flat mono transfers. I don't believe they are the LP masters, simply because several of these songs are different mixes than their LP counterparts. I'm trying to locate old threads where this was discussed but so far to no avail. I also believe that most people think these are the best-sounding mono mixes available. Ron

 

Ron, I don't think there is any doubt that the EP CD box was taken from the original EP masters. Steve has stated that as fact. However, the question I was addressing had to do with the Single CD box set, and whether the same masters were used for that (they were not - they used the single masters), and also if the proper versions were used (not in the case of PPM and AMW). Furthermore, the mono mixes on the EP's are the same as the mixes on the mono LP's or singles. I don't think there is any deviation from that model.

 

I'm not sure that is 100% accurate, I thought there were some mix differences between some of the tracks, but I may be wrong...time to haul out the set again. Thanks for your reply. Ron

 

I believe Another Side is correct.

The CD EP collection used the "EP masters" which are dubs of the LP masters (with the exceptions of Long Tall Sally and MMT -- the EP masters for these ARE the 1st generation masters).

The CD Singles Collection used the singles masters except for the first 2 singles -- LMD, PSILY, PPM, & AMW. Instead, the PPM CD digital masters (which are digital copies of the LP master) were mistakenly used for these 4 titles. This wouldn't be so important except for the fact these 4 songs were recorded and released months before the remainder of the PPM LP, so the singles masters for these 4 songs were altered when the LP master was created in order to "match" the sound of the other songs on the LP. Thus the singles masters and the LP/CD masters differ.

The other piece to this is that the LP masters were used to create the EP masters of these 4 songs -- not the singles masters. The Ringo on drums version of LMD was apparently replaced on the 45 after the release of the EP -- presumably to standardize the song across all 3 formats.

So there are differences between the singles and EP versions of these 4 songs. Other than that I believe there are no differences between singles and EP versions songs available in both formats.

 

I've been around here long enough to say that this would be the truest statement that would go along with the fact why Steve loves the CD EP collection. I wouldn't doubt that they are nothing but 1st generation masters.

I'm sure I've read this before. I certainly bought them ASAP after hearing how great they were even though I had tried to purchase both sets including the Singles CD collection. These are must have's for anybody's Beatles collection.

 

As good as they may sound, they're over-priced.

 

I believe I paid about around 60-65 bucks for each set and this was 2 years ago brand new from a Canadian Ebay seller called Ben Jammin's. In comparrision yes I've seen these sets go for more than twice that price since, but if you wait I'm sure you'd find a set for cheaper sooner or later. Keep checking Ebay!

These prices were about the same or cheaper than trying to get them off of QVC everytime my wife or I had tried to they were always sold out.

 

I paid $75 for the EP set (used) but $95 for the Singles set (brand new and sealed). I consider I got them for a fair price but the retail price is out of this world.

 

This is what I remember as well.

 

I believe the problem with the CD Singles Box includes the first 4 singles (8 songs) before we're into the good mono that constitutes most of the set. Tracks such as From Me To You and She Loves You never sounded good on CD until the release of the EP box.
As far as the sound of the EP box, excellent mono throughout except where it's in excellent stereo. If you haven't got it, get it and enjoy.
I also agree that although master tape transfers are preferable, a conservative transfer of a higher generation tape is better than a digitally destroyed master tape transfer. See Frank Sinatra on Capitol.
Bob.

 

Steve has said that the first 4 singles on the CD Singles Box are out of phase, but that the rest are OK. A simple out of phase test bears that out, but in the case of Please Please Me for example, it is only very slightly out of phase. The rest sound decent, but not as good as the EP box for whatever reason.