Elvis Costello - Ryko or Rhino

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by badfingerjoe, Jul 13, 2002.

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  1. badfingerjoe

    badfingerjoe Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    New Jersey
    I have a chance to pick up the oop Elvis Costello 2 1/2 years box set containing his 1st 3 CD's plus the bonus live disc. I have wanted to pick up these but would like to know what would be the smarter buy. The new Rhino versions or the Ryko box for the 1st 3 CD's. What's the deal with the bonus tracks? Are the bonus tracks on the Ryko discs also included on the new Rhino releases?
     
  2. lbangs

    lbangs Senior Member

    As far as bonus tracks, the Rhinos have more and usually (not always) AT LEAST duplicate the Ryko tracks. Now whether all the extra bonus tracks are always great songs or not is a matter of debate.

    To these ears, the Rhinos sound fuller, but the Rykos have more of that post-punk edge. I definitely would stick to the Rykos for This Year's Model and Blood and Chocolate, but for something like Imperial Bedroom or Armed Forces, the Rhinos may just gain a leg up. We'll have to see when those two titles are released...

    By the way, I may be going nuts, but I picked up an old original Columbia version of Get Happy yesterday at a used shop and I really dig the sound. I know, that probably means I'm losing my mind, but there seemed to be no artificial boosts and the midrange was fuller and more detailed. When the harmonica came in toward the end of the album, it was so sudden, present, loud, and lifelike in the room, it startled and scared me for an instance.

    Two questions.

    1) Am I going crazy, or do those original Columbias (this is the only one I have heard, as I am young enough not to have gotten into the Costello game until the Rykos were out) sound great? Maybe just Get Happy?

    2) Anyone know who did the mastering on these discs? There is no credit on my copy.

    Anyway, hope the info on the bonus stuff helps. IMHO opinion, All This Useless Beauty, My Aim is True, Spike, and Blood and Chocolate have the best bonus bonus tracks (but keep your Ryko Blood - better sound, and not all of the bonus tracks are duplicated on the Rhino, IIRC). (Hmmm, three of the four from the original arrivals...) This Year's Model gained little if any from the treatment. Brutal Youth has a few, not a ton, worthwhile extra goodies.

    Alright, I'm adone yakking...

    Shalom, y'all!

    L. Bangs
     
  3. voicebug

    voicebug Senior Member

    Location:
    now in Houston, TX
    As far as the Ryko CDs go, they are pretty good. I guess it depends on how much you like Elvis Costello because the man certainly has a hefty catalog.

    Since the Ryko CDs are single discs, there are a few to several bonus tracks on each one. The Rhino CDs have all the bonus tracks on the second disc of each respective volume. I believe that all of the bonus tracks on the Ryko discs can be found on the second disc (plus more tracks) on the Rhino CDs.

    However, I'm not quite sure. There may be a few songs on the Ryko discs that are not on the Rhino CDs, but I don't know for sure.

    I have heard that the sound quality of the Rhino releases are marginal improvements at best. I have the complete Ryko catalog and it is quite good. I'd say from a collectors standpoint, you can't go wrong buying the Ryko set since it is long out of print, and the live disc is cool. :)
     
  4. Matt

    Matt New Member

    Location:
    Illinois
    IMO, Rhino's "My Aim Is True" seems pretty close the Rykodisc, but "This Years Model" is very different. The Rhino seems more "clear," while the Rykodisc has this thicker, fat sound to it. Doesn't seem like the result of Rhino's usual EQ, but it's very interesting since presumably both CD's use the original master tape. Anyone else notice this?
     
  5. nashreed

    nashreed New Member

    Location:
    Tulsa, OK
    Lump me in with the lunatics who like the Columbia first issues of Costello on CD. I have "Armed Forces" on Columbia (I will buy any CD with an original smooth-sided case :agree:), and also "Taking Liberties", and "Punch The Clock". I'm finding more and more that the new remasters are less and less preferable to the old first issues on a lot of artists: Bowie, Elton John are obvious, and now Costello. The sound is quieter, sure: just turn it up, and you're not assaulted with digital pops and shrill, harsh crap that I hear so much nowadays on remastered/ new CD's. Maybe it was better when (with CD's), they didn't know what they were doing necessarily. Now they're trying too hard. I don't like the sound of anything that Rhino is doing now, and the Costello's are no different- too harsh and digital sounding. And yet, I still bought the sampler for "This Year's Model", "Blood..." and "Brutal..." that I found used the other day (where DID you find that original Columbia "Get Happy" in MY town, sir Bangs?? :winkgrin: )


    James
     
  6. Roland Stone

    Roland Stone Offending Member

    Elvis Costello Stock Tips

    Buy the 2 1/2 YEARS box now, as it's a collector's item already fetching big prices on half.com, due to the live disc only available in that box. I haven't seen any plans by Rhino to release that particular concert, though it could always be offered in the future.

    Personally, at the time I thought the transfer of the Elvis Costello catalog from Columbia to Ryko resulted in the biggest sonic upgrade of a major artist's catalog to date. I was thrilled with the sound and bonus tracks: the EP that came with IMPERIAL FORCES was available again! After the bizarre vinyl and dinky Columbia CD, GET HAPPY finally sounded like a real album!

    I can't comment on the Ryko to Rhino improvement, or lack thereof. I haven't purchased any Rhino versions of the Ryko discs; I just don't feel the need to upgrade.

    I'd also get the two-disc Ryko version of KING OF AMERICA if you can find it. If you see the 5-CD COSTELLO & NIEVE box (Warner Brothers), buy every copy immediately, as its value has shot up tremendously.

    And, of course, keep a copy of each for yourself!
     
  7. lbangs

    lbangs Senior Member

    Glad to see I am not the only lunatic! I found that Get Happy at CD Exchange on 15th, and only hours ago, I nabbed a Columbia Armed Forces at Gardner's on Mingo. (Now, about that Columbia cover...) Last week, they had the Columbia Blood and Chocolate, but somebody (you?) beat me to the punch...

    Are you a huge Cream fan? CD Exchange has the Mobile gold disc set of Live 1 & 2 used. I like Cream, but never dug those live sets.

    Now, don't go buy all the other Costellos before I get a chance! I'm really hoping to find a This Year's Model (my fave) soon... :)

    By the way, I was at the Bed, Bath, and Beyond on 71st today buying a salad spinner, but remembered you said you were on vacation this week. I'll try to stop by next week and meet you!

    Shalom, y'all!

    L. Bangs
     
  8. nashreed

    nashreed New Member

    Location:
    Tulsa, OK
    I'll be on the lookout for a Costello "This Year's Model" on Columbia for 'ya too. The only way I'd get it for myself is if it had a real nice condition smooth-sided case. :agree:

    I am off until a week from today. Will you be going to the Tulsa Record Convention this coming Saturday? It's at a different place than usual (don't know if you go to 'em, or get the postcards in the mail). Maybe we can meet up there? :wave: I'll be looking for original West German pressings of WEA discs (see avatar)- my newest (ongoing) total obsession. It's hard because most stores keep the discs behind the counter....

    James
     
  9. lbangs

    lbangs Senior Member

    I didn't know about it. Does the convention only feature LPs, or CDs as well (well, I guess I assume CDs, yes?)? I have no record player (sniff), but if they include compact discs, I'd love to show. Where is it and when, and how much? Feel free to private message me or to post the info here. If they also feature CDs (and if attendance isn't too pricey), I'll attend and try to meet up with you!

    Shalom, y'all!

    L. Bangs
     
  10. Uncle Al

    Uncle Al Senior Member

    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Count me OUT as someone with any respect for EC on Columbia. Because you mentioned it - I will relisten to Get Happy, but I am SURE that My Aim Is True sounded HORRIBLE on Columbia. My recollection is that I was elated when I first heard the Ryko Get Happy. Seems to me that most of the Ryko remasters LOST the digital shrillness that was on the Columbia, and recovered a bottom end that some how got lost on the original CD issue.

    About a month ago I pulled out my Columbia Blood and Chocolate - yech. All treble boost and mucho compressed with the whole thing at peak. This sound of this CD annoyed me so much, I could never listen to it. After a few kind words on this forum, I gave it another shot. Maybe that one sounds better on Ryko as well, but the Columbia sounds like crap.
     
  11. lbangs

    lbangs Senior Member

    Alright, new Columbia question. I have sources which say that Columbia remastered the Costello albums in 1989. So, I have to ask, Uncle Al, are you listening to original Columbias or remastered ones? Comments I have seen concerning the remastered ones mention more treble, and the original ones I have contain more bass than the Rykos, so I'm curious...

    Do the 89 remasters have anything on the discs distinguishing them from the originals? I know the running times are different.

    Shalom, y'all!

    L. Bangs
     
  12. Uncle Al

    Uncle Al Senior Member

    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Well, I don't know of any Columbia remasters, and the only dates on the CD's are the copyright dates from the original lp releases. What I do know is...

    Of the 4 Columbia Costello CD's I own, 3 of them were purchased as soon as EC was made available on the format - My Aim is True, Get Happy, and Blood and Chocolate (which is the first EC CD I bought native to the digital format, I never owned vinyl on that one). I think all three have a very thin sound, although B&C is a bit richer in the lower end.

    I also have Trust on Columbia, which I purchased sometime in the mid 90's. For some reason, this one sounds fine.
     
  13. Dan C

    Dan C Forum Fotographer

    Location:
    The West
    I believe that Columbia issued a small box or set that was re-mastered. Oddly,(if I recall correctly) the cassettes had a few different tracks than the CDs. It was called "Girls, Girls, Girls", a bit of tongue in cheek I suppose.

    As far as I know, Columbia never remastered the whole catalog.

    BTW, I read an interview with Costello saying that he was unhappy with the Ryko simply because they issued the UK Demon re-masters with nothing else done. It sounded like he felt a bit slighted by Ryko.
    He claims that the Rhino is definitely what he had in mind in the first place. This is about track selection, no word on the actual sound.

    Dan C
     
  14. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits, Abbie & Mitzi: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    I'm with Uncle Al on this one - I despised the Columbia ECs. I'm not as discerning as many (most?) folks here, but I couldn't stand to listen to some of those, ESPECIALLY the miserable "My Aim Is True". For a long time, I regarded that as my worst-sounding CD, and the Rkyo reissue was a revelation. I vaguely recall that some seemed fine - "TYM", "Trust" - but most weren't too hot in my opinion...
     
  15. lbangs

    lbangs Senior Member

    Hmmm, quite a mystery.

    I'm well aware of Girls Girls Girls, and yes, the cassette has different songs than the CDs do.

    I haven't heard Columbia's My Aim is True, so I won't presume to comment on that one.

    I do know that Bill Shapiro's Rock & Roll Review ((c) 1991) claims that Columbia remastered all the Costello CDs in 89 and lists different running times for the CDs. I also have friends who have Columbia discs with differing running times, so I am pretty sure a remaster happened. How to tell the difference? I've no idea. However, if you bought the discs when they first arrived, you must have the original issues.

    Shalom, y'all!

    L. Bangs
     
  16. Dan C

    Dan C Forum Fotographer

    Location:
    The West
    Hmm. Very intriguing. Didn't Sony own Columbia by '89? So perhaps there's a Sony in the fine print on the elusive remasters? The older issues would be CBS, of course.

    Dan C
     
  17. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    South Plymouth, Ma
    I bought the 2 1/2 years box with the Live at El Macambo (sp). Great set. I don't think Ryco did a bad job with the set, it's just that the real sound of EC hasn't been done yet. I didn't like the Columbias that much until after Imperial Bedroom.

    But there are a lot of technical evils on Imperial Bedroom. Me thinks, the weird EQ and the soft crushed-out sound was on purpose.

    Otherwize, if just for the way Ryco handled bonus tracks, I'm very happy. Nah, I'm not buying Elvis again.
     
  18. lbangs

    lbangs Senior Member

    You may have something there. I'll have to try to get a glance at the back of some of my friends' later Columbia discs. I'm at work, but when I return home I'll post the times of the original discs vs. the remasters, if anyone is interested.

    Shalom, y'all!

    L. Bangs
     
  19. lbangs

    lbangs Senior Member

    I do think much of the sound of the Rykos is Costello's sound. While I also believe I detect some treble boost and a decrease in the midrange, I really have nothing against the Rykos. I just really dig the Columbia Get Happy I found. I'm hoping to check out my Armed Forces today.

    And, if only for those bonus tracks, I certainly will be keeping those Ryko discs, though I'll be passing on most of the Rhinos...

    Shalom, y'all!

    L. Bangs
     
  20. lbangs

    lbangs Senior Member

    Great discussion on the merits of the various releases. However, *does* anybody know who did the original mastering (or, heck, the remastering) for Columbia? My liner notes are silent on this...

    Shalom, y'all!

    L. Bangs
     
  21. Uncle Al

    Uncle Al Senior Member

    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Just to clear up some confusion, I believe I meant Rhino, not Ryko, on my previous posts. I was comparing the Columbia to the 4 1/2 years boxset....

    I haven't picked up ANY of the current 2 CD sets.
     
  22. lbangs

    lbangs Senior Member

    I think you had it right. The new 2-CD sets are Rhino. The 2 1/2 Years box set, as far as I know, was only released by Ryko.

    Or am I completely misunderstanding you (which, given my tiny brain on a Monday morning, is *always* possible)?

    Shalom, y'all!

    L. Bangs
     
  23. Uncle Al

    Uncle Al Senior Member

    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Nah - you got it right. That Rhino/Ryko thing has screwed me up a couple of times. I find that age has caused a limited amount of functional memory brain cells for "record labels that begin with the letter R". I could probably delete some unecessary information, but the last time I did that I went home to a previous address. :rolleyes:
     
  24. lbangs

    lbangs Senior Member

    Rhino Ryko - Isn't that a character Dustin Hoffman played once?

    Shalom, y'all!

    L. Bangs (who should really know better than to make bad, bad jokes this early in the week...)
     
  25. Peter D

    Peter D Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Most (if not all) of the Columbia Costellos were indeed upgraded in the late 80s. It was a silent upgrade in the sense that the catalog numbers and credits seemed to be identical on each (no CD mastering credit on either). Unfortunately, I sold my discs when the Rykos came out, so I don't know if the inner ring has any distinguishing notations a la Warner's usage of RE-1. The difference in playing time is probably the only reliable clue.

    I learned of the Costello upgrades via ICE, and ICE also mentioned that Columbia was allowing consumers to exchange their old discs for the new ones at no charge. So I sent them my copies of Armed Forces and This Year's Model and received the upgrades. Because you had to send them the originals first, I couldn't do an A/B comparison, but both seemed substantially better to my ears.
     
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