Ed's Moody Blues Appreciation Thread...

General 'clearinghouse' threads for our major fave acts would seem to be the way to go, given how most search engines work....these guys--who are apparently never going to get into the R&R HOF, politics, prejudice, whatever reaons--deserve that much, and questions always come up, so....

Got a reply from the 'sixth Moody,' producer Tony Clarke, over the weekend concerning the mono mixes of the early Moodies Deram albums:

Hi Ed,

Yes the early albums were available in mono but that was common practice in those days.

However, my ambition for the Moody Blues sound was always stereo. We would obviously press the mono comparison switch to check for phasing and cancellation, but honestly we only mixed those masters once stereo.

And there we have it....any DOFP, ISOTLC, OTTOAD, or TOCCC mono pressings are fold-downs. Kind of suspected that, given how little difference I heard on LC when I finally snagged a mint mono pressing.

We can also surmise from Tony's statement that some single sides were probably folded to mono too, like "Tuesday Afternoon," "Ride My See-Saw" and "Question"...."Nights" was not, however, that was a special mix, and although I stupidly forgot to ask, suspect "Never Comes The Day" may be a special mix, too(as was a stereo single issue of "Melancholy Man," IIRC), it's certainly a unique edit that hasn't to my knowledge been reissued anywhere.

Should be a fun thread, what with pressing variations, different CD masterings, etc.

 

Have any of the original mixes for Days of Future Past ever been released on CD? I finally found a nice copy of a German pressing someone suggested was the best version. Those mixes are certainly different. Not sure I did myself a favor when I learned the remixes first.

Tony Clarke would be an interesting guy to talk to. Some of the effects on Lost Chord (the swirling sound on Best Way To Travel) are mesmerizing. How they hell'd they do that with the gear they had? Brilliant recordings all around too. Those albums sounded stupidly good.

 

Time Traveller box set. That one's mastered a tad bright, though.

 

Very interesting Ed. Previous discussions we've had on what Universal could do or use for a Days Of Future Past Deluxe Edition wil now not have include the mono mix, since there really wasn't one. The Deluxe Edition could now focus on the original stereo mix, quad mix and various singles and b sides such as "Cities". The issue before was how could they squeeze all of that, plus the mono mix onto 2 CDs.

 

Chris,

At the least, the deluxe package would have the 5.1; stereo remix; and mono(and stereo)single mixes. "Cities" has been in stereo on CD, but not the original(and superior) mono. And as there must be a usable copy tape of the original stereo mix somewhere, they could use that, too, if the band's willing...but who knows?



There are four mixes of DOFP: original stereo mix; mono fold; stereo remix; and Quad mix. Except for a few cuts on the TT box, the album is the remix on all CD's that I know of, and starting in the late '70s, on vinyl around the world.

The question, though, is whether a good tape copy of the original stereo mixdown is out there...one would guess there is, but it's known the original had deteriorated, hence the remix.

There seem to be three different CD masterings: the original from the '80s; the 90's remaster; and the MFSL edition, all from the remix tape.

 

Being that you are communicating with Tony Clarke, could you find out how involved he is with the 5.1 mixes, whether they are enhanced from the (4.0) quad mixes, and what the story is on an alleged 5.1 "In Search Of The Lost Chord"? Also, what about the extra tracks like "Simple Game"? Will these be in surround? Last, what about the singles issued in mono 1967-1970? I believe that at least some of these were authentic mono mixes.

 

The statement remains, the multi's to In Search Of The Lost Chord have been missing for a long time and exhaustive searches have turned up nothing.

However, if they are ever found, I would be the 1st in line to want to hear a well done 5.1. I'd be like a kid in a candy store....

 

He isn't involved in any way.

That was the original word; but any multichannel mix of ISOTLC would have to be a new one, since it would be the first.

Your guess is as good as mine, except that it's coming...I know, find it hard to believe myself. If it couldn't be done in the '70s, unless some missing material has been found, how could it be done now(other than re-recording whatever's missing?)

At the very least, "Nights," "Cities" and "Never Comes The Day" are dedicated mono mixes(the latter is definitely a unique edit). "Tuesday Afternoon," "See Saw" and "Question," less likely, since the latter two were also issued on stereo 45's contemporaneously.

It's assumed that as of DOFP, all the Moodies catalog exists in multitrack. The problem is that there was too much of importance missing from LOST CHORD, and while there may have been a few overdubs lost for DOFP, nothing radical enough to make the Quad mix unworkable.

 

Why don't ya just invite Tony here ED....cut out the middle man, it's always great getting the info right from the source instead of the trickle down method...

 

I'll go you one better: here's the URL and YOU can go say hi to Tony. Be warned he only posts on occasion, but if you got questions, worth a shot, got more out of him than I did out of Justin:

http://www.mikepinder.com/phpBB2/

Jamie would be a great candidate to handle the tech questions. Just go to "Questions for Tony Clarke"...you can post as a guest--as I did at first--or register, as I later did....

 

Thanks ED...I thought you had a working relationship with Tony.
If you feel inclinded, the next time you email him...invite him over...

 

Nope, simply know the dude from Mike's board....nice guy, Mr. Pinder, though he doesn't seem to miss the band much. I don't think Tony's working these days, haven't asked him, really. But no need to e-mail, anyone who wishes can leave questions on the open board, he'll get to you eventually.

 

Gotcha.

 

Since we've pretty much flogged DOFP to death--not much left to discuss about that one--time to move on to IN SEARCH OF THE LOST CHORD.

Fun album, but in a pattern that would continue for the rest of their career, also erratic. Not in performance--these guys were ace musicians--but in terms of song quality. Unfortunately, their detractors tend to remember the treacle--and there is some scattered about everywhere--while missing their often mesmerizing creativity and rock'n'roll chops.

I've always felt Mike Pinder's Mellotron work was their secret weapon. His flourishes--which ranged from the gossamer, to the extremely intense--informed their music for as long as he was in the band(the exception being OCTAVE, but more on that later).

Mike's presence on this 2nd of the Original 7 is a musical one--he has only two songs, "The Best Way To Travel," which really isn't much of a song, but a great mess of instrumentation and excellently mixed; and "Om," which was probably dated the moment it was issued(or even before...).

Highlights: "Ride My See-Saw," the album's single and one of their hardest rockers, these days often the finale of their live shows; "Legend Of A Mind," Ray's take on Timothy Leary that genuinely soars; and two fine Hayward songs, "Voices In The Sky" and "The Actor." The remainder of the cuts are exotic, sometimes psychedelic, and mostly genuinely playful.

As fans of this musical period can attest, these guys did the sophisticated acid-rock thing better than just about anyone, and managed to sustain the neo-mysticism the longest. Their albums from this time remain head trips, but with more teeth and guts than they have been given credit for. Beyond that, if some of it remains somewhat silly, they were all fine musicians, something that cannot be said for most who tried to do this sort of thing.

A multi-channel version would be a joy to have, if it is released. But if so, it's curious, then, why this one didn't get the Quad treatment in the '70s, along with the other Original 7. Well, we shall see...or not.

 

My fave continues to be On The Threshold Of A Dream, and I'd be curious to see how that might turn out multi-channel. Makes me wonder if they'd try to duplicate the locked groove on the organ at the end of Side 2, and how far they would go with it.

Is there a thread outlining the differences between the songs on the first seven albums with Hayward/Lodge and the way that some appeared on This Is The Moody Blues?

I should note that all I've had was the vinyl version, not the CD, so I'm assuming that the mixes are identical between the two formats were identical. I seem to recall that the most blatant differences were in "Question" (more acoustic guitar at the intro, with the rest of the band not in the mix for better than 30 seconds) and "Lovely To See You" (without the channel-to-channel panning of the guitar before the last verse, although I hesitate to say it's a mono mix), though I wouldn't be surprised to hear more.

 

The Quad-8 of THRESHOLD, IIRC, has a long locked groove portion, but what will be done with the upcoming(maybe) SACD Special Edition, who knows?

The acoustic intro of "Question" references the 45 version, which has none of Pinder's Mellotron bombast until later on, near the finish. The difference between the 45 mix and THIS IS, is length, as it runs longer there than the 45 does(not edited, just continues on a bit longer).

 

While I think that the core seven albums by the Moodies are fantastic, I have to say that I think 'This Is ...' is an ideal compliation - just perfect in my opinion; it is one of the best compliations of any artist. (I know some of you will question omissions from the track list.) I hope that the record company (- is there such a thing anymore?-) considers presenting 'This Is ...' in a high rez SACD format, as well.

 

THIS IS is a great comp(songs chosen by the band), nice remixes, but has been available for a long time as an import-only title. Odds of an SACD edition wouldn't seem likely given that limited distribution(unless it was issued in Europe, but not over here). The set was available domestically for a year or two, but like some solo titles, still available elsewhere.

 

It does, also on the quad reel, but it comes at the end of side one, probably to balance out the running time.

 

Moody Blues is cool, period! But as we're waiting for SACD to materialize isn't it time to discuss post 1973 CDs? They are not even remastered as far as I know, not to mention no chance of SACD! Can anybody recommend me some good sounding ones outside the core seven? I only heard the singles from their late 70's -80's stuff and they are all very nice. I guess Moodies are supposed to sit on you collector's shelf ENTIRELY! And I also wonder about December Album - is it a good one?

 

Yep, that's why we're gathered here today....

In due course, my dear fellow...patience!

No...no remasterings of any titles from THIS IS forward, unless I missed 'em...and no, SACD is doubtful at this time...though ya never can tell....

All their regular studio releases sound just fine as is; could be a good reason why they haven't' been remastered, maybe the band figures they're spot on.

A bit too much filler for my liking...but several songs are prime latter-day Moodies, though as usual, critics weren't effusive in their praise. DECEMBER also wasn't marketed very well, except by the band, and some fans had a tough time getting a copy without going online.

 

I thought December was a good seasonal album. "Don't Need A Raindeer" and "Yes, I Believe" are the standout tracks. But I am pretty biased. The Moodies are one of my favorite bands.

I want to see a SACD of Blue Jays!

 

Nice avatar, zardozislove! A CRITIC fan, no doubt! Frozen peas indeed!

 

"Yes. YES! Oh what luck....there is a french fry stuck in my beard!"

What is everyone's opinion of the Moodies solo stuff? I like the Hayward albums, especially Songwriter, and Ray Thomas - From Mighty Oaks. "Rock A Bye Baby Blues" always brings a smile to my face.

 

SONGWRITER and FROM MIGHTY OAKS are very strong albums...both sound just like you'd expect from each musician. I like John Lodge's NATURAL AVENUE also, although it's spottier than the records I just mentioned. BLUE JAYS is for all intents and purposes a Moodies album...I have wonderful college memories attached to but admittedly I don't play it very much compared to the other solo works (I find it a tad too string-laden for my tastes).

BTW, Hayward's SONGWRITER, NIGHT FLIGHT (very nice record also) and BLUE JAYS have been remastered on Decca UK, keeping the original bonus tracks and adding a couple to NIGHT FLIGHT. The sound is a marked improvement, especially on SONGWRITER which I thought sounded very muffled and bass heavy the first time round.