Blue Note Records - Stereo Recordings

I have been thinking of picking up some of the Classic Records Mono Blue Note 1500 Series.
The 1500 series covers the years 1952 to 1958. Some of the titles in this series appear to be Stereo fold downs. I know that John Coltrane's "BlueTrain" was released in Stereo.
Does anyone know when Rudy Van Gelder began recording in Stereo, and when Blue Note began releasing titles in Stereo?

 

I believe Rudy's first stereo recordings for Blue Note occured in 1957.

I think Blue Note began issuing titles in stereo for LP in 58 or 59.

 

None of the 1500 series were originally in stereo, right (though they may have been recorded that way)? I think it was the 4000/84000 series that began the Stereo/Mono dual issue LPs...

I'm not sure if 'fold-down' is the right word for any 1500 series titles either. Were these recorded to three-track?

 

So, does that mean that the original (1959-issue) stereo versions of John Coltrane's BLUE TRAIN and Cannonball Adderley's SOMETHIN' ELSE are closer to the actual two-track master tape than the mono versions are?

I asked this question, because later '70s "stereo" recuttings actually folded in the channels. (Booooo!)

 

Hmm...so that "in the room" sound that my original RVG 1500s have is due to (or despite) being redubbed?

Were live titles like Sonny Rollins at the Blackhawk and Blakey at Birdland also folded down?

I should have picked up that RVG-cut stereo Blue Train I saw recently...

 

I looked over my Lee Morgan and Hank Mobley Mosaic Box sets and from the information on those two sets, Rudy Van Gelder started recording in 2-Track Stereo around BN 1568, Hank Mobley "Hank Mobley". However BN 1560 "Hank" was still a 1-Track Mono Recording. My CD of Sonny Clark's "Dial S For Sonny" BN 1570, states on the back that it is available for the first time in Stereo.
Thanks for the help

 

I asked Blue Note's reissue producer, Michael Cuscuna about this and he replied:

"Art Blakey - Orgy In Rhythm 3/7/57, was the first mono and stereo session. Sabu 4/28/57 was the second. All studio dates from that point on, up to and including Art Blakey - Moanin' 10/30/58, were recorded on both mono and stereo machines.

After that all sessions were recorded in two track and folded down for mono."

FYI, with this info in hand, the first session issued in mono that was actually made from a folded-down stereo master was BLP-4004, Art Blakey's "Holiday For Skins, Vol. 1".

This also means that there is a mono master for Coltrane's "Blue Train". It was recorded 9/15/57, and if what I've read in the past is true, these mono masters will probably sound better. Supposedly Rudy Van Gelder only had a mono monitor set up during playback.

Later,
Kevin

 

Steve, I E-mailed Cuscuna to ask him if there was any reason why some of the "masters" now show splices (I assume you are referring to masters you've used) and he replied, "Some tapes exist as original masters. Some were transferred in the '70s and the originals thrown away! It varies and has no logic."

That's too bad. Sounds like another "someone at the vault was an idiot" story.

Kevin

 

Classic Records claims to be using the Mono Masters for the 1500 Series. I noticed that there are some gaps in the series. Maybe the original Mono masters don't exist on certain titles. I'm excited to hear the new Sonny Clark titles on Classic Records, they've just released "Dial S for Sonny" & "Sonny's Crib".

 

I think the redubs Steve is talking about are not copies made in the 70's, but Rudy redubbing them back in the day with extra Eq (IIRC probably boosted around 5khz) and I think compression. Correct me if I'm wrong, Steve!

 

I too have been thinking of buying Blue Train on Classic. My problem is different however: I have never heard a stereo mix of any Blue Note recording, and would appreciate it if someone told me whether these early stereo Blue Notes were mixed to achieve that awful extreme left-right separation, a-la Way Out West.
If so, then it's a mono Classic for me -- personally I find that kind of "stereo" irritating.

 

Blue Note non-RIAA pre-emph.

Note that Blue Note, in common with several other labels of the period, cut with the AES curve, not RIAA. Dunno when they changed over, perhaps when RVG got his Neumann?
Anyone know?

Brian.

 

Yikes! Why would an engineer in the 1970s make a dub tape of a master and then throw the original master away? Do we know how may Blue Note master tapes suffered this fate?

 

Blame Dino Lappas at United Artists Records. His dub turkey project thankfully got shelved soon. There is an old thread here about that.

 

Couldn't find the thread on this. What's the story? Ironic that original master tapes from the 50s and 60s would be thrown out once they were dubbed to another tape in the 1970s. In addition to being a generation removed from the master tape, 1970s tape is known for shedding. Do we know what Blue Note sessions only exist today as a 1970s dub tape?

 

If I recall it was related to a Steve Hoffman discussion on a AP or Music Matters thread where a tape was suspected to be a dub but turned out to be the original in a new reel and box.