German Magical Mystery Tour Vinyl

I just received a copy that I bought off of ebay. Forum member Randall also recently purchased a copy.

We were discussing them in this thread:
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=43970

So I expected to get a stamper that reads 1C 072-04 449, as was described in the auction description. This is also the version that Tom Port reports has the deepest bass in "Baby You're a Rich Man". Now that I have it in hand, I see that the Apple jacket does indeed list the 1C number on the back.

But after checking the dead wax on either side of the vinyl, Side 1 has SHZE 327A1 and 04449-A-1. While Side 2 has SHZE 327B3 and 04449-B-3. I haven't been able to listen to it yet.

Can anybody tell me exactly what pressing I have based on these numbers? Is it the 1C pressing or is it an earlier HorZu pressing. Or does the jacket not actually go with the piece of vinyl inside of it? I'm just curious, as I thought I understood all of the German pressings, but now find myself confused again. Thanks.

 

My copy also has two sets of matrix numbers. I believe this designates it as a second or third pressing that went back to the metal parts used for the first pressing (wishful thinking?). There's a thread from a few years ago that had specific information: search and you'll find it. But relax: all the '70s / early '80s German pressings of MMT are said to sound excellent.

 

I believe the SHZE is the HorZu pressing. I think the HZ in SHZE stand for HorZu.

 

Here's the thread I was thinking of (took a while to find it):

www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=6677&highlight=pressing+German+magical+mystery+tour

Everything you wanted to know about Beatles' German pressings but were afraid to ask!

 

Ian:

I have had six copies of this LP's, all 1 C 062 and 1 C 072 Apple copies. A friend has one of the Hor Zu's. All copies have the 2 sets of matrixes. I have never seen one that does not and, I believe, neither has anyone on this forum.

The first set of matrixes on Beatles German LP's, be they YEX, or SHZE, reference the original LP cutting (in the case of MMT, there wasn't an "original" LP cutting because the German MMT LP was not released until 1971); the second set (the 044 series numbers) reference the Neumann lathe remastering/cutting, etc. Ergo, German Beatles LP's with both sets of matrixes sound great. I do not believe that there is any appreciable difference in German MMT LP's, though Tom Port may very well have documented such a difference. It's just that I have never heard one.

FYI, ALL German Odeon blue label 1 C 072 series LP's have 2 sets. Only some (later

 

My copy -which came in late this morning - has the same stamper info (SHZE 327 A-1/SHZE 327 B-3, but without any additional numbers). The HorZu logo on my copy is the newer, turntable logo.

 

Dude:

The other set of numbers is there, very small and pushed up against the label so that they are very hard to read. Check again.

 

Peter, here is another thread on the subject:
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=24232&page=4&pp=20&highlight=MMT

I have had about 5 of these myself. There is a best pressing (as Tom knows), it has one stamper only on each side (04449-A1+C and 04449-B1+C) and no SHZE prefix. It also has a narrower run out space than the other German MMT pressings. I know this goes against what we know about two sets of stampers on each side of German Beatles LPs sounding better, but the increase in dynamic range on this particular pressing to me is unmistakable.

 

Interesting, except all of the ones I had had the narrow run-out grooves. I will check my 3 keeper copies....and post...

 

Actually, there is no other set of numbers on my particular copy. I have double-checked to make sure.

 

I have a similar copy with just the Hor Zu matrix in the dead wax, and the HorZu logo on the front cover.

The other copy I have has the small Hor Zu matrix very close to the label plus the 072 matrix; it has the Apple logo on the front cover.

 

If it has two sets, the SHZE is the one that is very close to (almost under) the label. The second number is directly under it.

 

My Horzu copy, which IIRC was bought not too long after it came out, also has only the one set of numbers: "SHZE 327 A 1" on Side 1, and "SHZE 327 B 3" on Side 2.

 

I have three pressings of the German MMT: two on the HörZu/Apple label (SHZE 327), and one on the Apple label (1C 072-04 449).

Both HörZu/Apple pressings have only one set of matrix numbers on each side: SHZE 327 A 1 and SHZE 327 B 3. These are half-buried under the label. One pressing has the red & white logo on the cover; the other has the 'record player' logo. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the red & white logo is from ca. 1971, whereas the record player logo is from ca. 1973.

The Apple pressing has both sets of matrix numbers on each side: SHZE 327 A 1 0449-A-1 and SHZE 327 B 3 0449-B-3. Again, the 'SHZE' part is half-buried under the label, with the '0449' part stamped beneath.

I have never seen or heard a pressing with only 0449-A1+C/0449-B1+C matrix numbers. If those sound even better than the other three pressings, I'll have to get one. To my ears, the HörZu and Apple pressings sound pretty much the same. The 1971 pressing is dead quiet, so that's the one I play all the time.

Are the '0449-A1+C' pressings the only ones with the narrow dead wax area on side 2 ? The three pressings i own all have an inch-wide dead wax area on side 2.

Robert Lan

 

I completely agree with you Robert. I too have never seen any German MMT LP with only the "044..." numbers. I am surprised at this discovery. However, equally, I have never seen a German MMt with ONLY the SHZE numbers. Obviously, I believe you and Randy.

My three keeper copies (as well as the 3 that I have sold here) ALL had the 2 sets of matrixes. All were either 1 C062's or 1 C072's. All were Apple copies. I have never had a Hor Zu.

The run out grooves on side 2 of all three copies of mine are also about an inch.

 

Peter,

That answers my question regarding the 'narrow' run-out groove version. I'll have to find a copy of the 0449-A1+C/0449-B1+C pressing Randy W mentions above and in another post.

Thanks !

Robert Lan

 

Thanks for the vote of confidence Peter and Robert. I discovered this difference in sound after I heard that Tom Port had reported that one particular pressing of the German MMT LP sounded better than the others. I called him and asked for the matrix numbers which he would not give me (I understand this is how he makes his living so no big). I had 4 copies at the time, 3 Apples and 1 Horzu, so I sat down and played them all.

My Horzu has record player cover and Horzu Apple label with a single set of SHZE 327 A 1/SHZE 327 B 3 stampers and a 1" wide runout area on side 2. It is very good sounding. One of the Apples had double stampers and same 1" wide side 2 runout. It also sounded very good (I have since given this copy to a friend). The second Apple has a German 2 box EMI label with single set of 04449-A1+C/04449-B1+C stampers and a 3/4" runout area on side 2. It sounded significantly better than the previous two. The third Apple has a German Apple label with the single set of 04449-A1+C/04449-B1+C stampers and a 3/4" runout area on side 2. This last Apple MMT is even better (I would judge it to be 30% more dynamic than the Horzu I have). I am sure there are other stampers out there and they may be even better than this last copy, but I was pretty convinced I had the "hot stamper" Tom was reporting so I stopped there. Hope this all helps.

 

Randy,

Thanks. This helps indeed. I'll look for an Apple label pressing with single '04449' stampers (with three 4s--not two--you're right !!).

Robert Lan

 

Amazing post Randy. This MMT must truly sound awesome, because I know how good the ones with 2 matrixes sound--I can't even imagine how much better your's sounds!!!

Nicely done!

 

Thanks Peter, I find your posts to be the most valuable to me on this forum, so I'm glad I could assist you this time. Please list your equipment in your profile if you have a chance - I find this helpful some times.

 

Thank you for the compliment, though my wife would disagree!! (Spend toooooo much time here.)

I will get around to listing my equipment soon. Just lazy......

 

This discussion and several other German MMT discussions have been very helpful to me as I get immersed in the wonderful world of "best sounding Beatles vinyl" so thanks to all involved!

Haven't yet tracked down the "best" sounding (Port-endorsed) German MMT variant but hope to some day. In the meantime I just wanted to chime in with my own A/B test comparing these two other pressings:

A second Horzu label (turntable logo), Matrix #s SHZE 117A1 / SHZE 117 B 3
Apple label (C 072), Matrix #s SHZE 327A1 04449-A-1 / SHZE 327B3 04449-B-3

I am posting because while it has been said a couple of times that these two sound very much the same, my own listening test found pretty significant differences. I preface this by saying I do have a really revealing listening system - it will definitely allow one to quickly hear differences in tonality and will very rapidly reveal "toppy" pressings.

What I find is that the later Apple version is way, way more "toppy" or harsh on the high end and lacking in midrange presence, plus it has a wimpier bottom end. There's actually quite a lot of distortion in the high range associated with this - so for example, that odd "scraping" sound effect in "Penny Lane" has a hissing edge, and the recorders (I think that's what they are) in "Strawberry Fields" and flutes on "Fool On the Hill" just don't sound right. Cymbals are hissy too. Bummer.

Overall the 2nd Horzu pressing is just so more natural and pleasant on the ear, so I'm really glad I have it!

To be honest I was rooting for the Apple, because the Horzu has got some surface noise in a few places (VG+ or EX in the U.K. would be a fair rating - nothing terrible but unfortunate) while the Apple is truly mint - seems to have never been played or maybe only a few times. Alas, not to be. I'm thinking this may mostly be a pressing quality issue, but not sure. The Horzu is on nice moderately heavy weight vinyl while the Apple is on flimsy stock - does that even matter? Who knows.

Anyway, I thought other people might be interested in this, if your system tends to expose "take your head off" brightness, take note!

 

That's a good question - honestly I'm not sure. For German Beatles pressings so far all I have is MMT (though a -2 matrix Horzu red label DIE BEATLES is on the way!!!).

I will have to do an A/B test of that one against my U.K. stereo MMT EP (pretty whipped vinyl condition unfortunately but should do the job for this test) and get back to you on that later today.