My initial review of the Sony SCD-C2000ES SACD/CD changer.

What an odyssey this has been. I've been mired in Sony SACD/CD changers the past couple of weeks. That's not such a bad thing, but my head is spinning! O.K., I recently added a new SACD/CD changer to my second system. As background, here's what I had in this modest system before making the addition. Some commentary on these components is provided at no additional charge.

* NAD C 350 stereo integrated amp: An amazing amp for just $350! I don't know how NAD does it.

* Energy e:XL 25 floorstanding speakers: These are pretty good speakers for the $550 I paid. They are probably the weak link of the system, but they have no obvious weakness considering the price. When I want more detail, I turn to the Totem Arro floorstanders paired with an NAD C 370 stereo integrated amp and NAD C 270 stereo power amp (passive biamping) in the main system.

* Sony SCD-C333ES stereo SACD/CD changer: This was my first SACD player in this system. It's a very solid player with both CDs and SACDs. However, I no longer use it to play multi-channel SACDs since I observed the dreaded static problem once. It is now used exclusively for CDs and stereo SACDs.

* Sony SCD-C555ES multi-channel SACD/CD changer: I bought this player after observing the aforementioned static problem on the 'C333ES. With the 'C555ES, I am free to play any SACD my heart desires, as it handles multi-channel discs with aplomb. Note that the system here is just stereo, so I don't actually listen to the 5.1 tracks here.

O.K. Why would I get another SACD changer? Well, I am very picky about how my components are used, and I can't stand to use them in a way that my little mind feels is abusive. My wife likes to load five discs in a changer and do all-disc shuffle play for hours on end in my second system. She's been doing this with the 'C333ES for quite awhile, and I've never been comfortable with it. I don't like the continuous wear and tear. So, I convinced her that we should get an inexpensive player for such purposes. She agreed! We decided to get a Sony SCD-CE595 SACD/CD changer for $150 at Best Buy. Life was good.

The 'CE595 is an excellent value. CD playback is very impressive for the money. When compared to the 'C333ES and 'C555ES, the 'CE595 is a tad bright in the vocals, but not overly so. I've heard much worse in budget players. Overall, the ES players gave more detail and better layering, but the 'CE595 came much closer than I expected. With SACDs, the 'CE595 came even closer. All in all, the 'CE595's performance is shocking. My primary complaint with it is the remote. This remote lacks direct track access buttons. On the plus side, the remote for the 'C555ES operates it flawlessly.

So all was well with the 'CE595, right? Wrong. Perhaps you've been down this road before. You buy a component, you like it, but a more expensive model nags at you. I went through this after buying a Denon DVD-2200 universal player for this second system back in February. The '2200 is a good player, but the '2900 kept nagging at me...or I kept nagging at it. I forget. Anyway, two weeks after buying the '2200, I exchanged it for the '2900. The same sort of nagging went on for me with the recently released Sony SCD-C2000ES SACD/CD changer. The 'C2000ES is similar to the 'CE595, but priced $400. I couldn't help but wonder whether the 'C2000ES was better than the steal-of-a-buy 'CE595. After much debating, I ordered a 'C2000ES from Crutchfield.

I've had the 'C2000ES for a few days now, and I like it! Upon removing it from the box, here are a few obvious differences one notices when comparing it to the 'CE595:

* The 'C2000ES is silver, while the 'CE595 is black. (Hey, I don't miss a trick!)

* The 'C2000ES is a bit taller.

* The 'C2000ES has a thin aluminum front panel.

* The 'C2000ES has headphone jack with volume control.

* The 'C2000ES has four "real" feet. The feet have nice pads. The 'CE595 has two large front feet with small, cheap-looking pads and two small cheap-looking rear feet.

* The 'C2000ES has gold plated outputs. These include dedicated stereo analog outputs, 5.1-channel outputs, and a coaxial digital output. There is also an optical digital output. The 'CE595 has chrome-plated 5.1-channel outputs. There are no dedicated stereo analog outputs nor is there a coaxial digital output. The 'CE595 has an optical digital output.

* The 'C2000ES comes with a fully functional remote, meaning that it has direct track access buttons.

* The 'C2000ES comes with a Rolling Stones SACD sampler.

O.K., O.K. Comparison time. First off, the 'C2000ES is a definite step up from the 'CE595. As good as the 'CE595 is for the money, I found the 'C2000ES to sound more refined with CDs. The '2000ES sounds lively or "bouncy" with CDs. There is a completeness to the sound that the 'CE595 does not offer. By comparison, the 'CE595 sounds thin. It's one of those situations where the 'CE595 sounds great on its own, but then when compared to the 'C2000ES, the 'CE595 is found to be lacking. When compared to the 'C333ES and 'C555ES (I prefer the 'C555ES as a CD player by a narrow margin over the 'C333ES, by the way), the 'C2000ES does not give up much. I found the bass to be better on the earlier-generation players. Overall, the 'C333ES and 'C555ES give more extension, which gives more of an in-the-room feel. The 'C2000ES sounds flatter or more confined to a plane by comparison. However, the difference is not dramatic. I detected it, but this is not a case where the 'C2000ES is flat to the point of sucking the life out of the music. As I said, the 'C2000ES is bouncy. The 'C333ES and 'C555ES are just bouncier.

With SACDs, I found similar differences, but I always find it harder to detect differences in SACD mode. I've never walked away unimpressed with a Sony player in SACD mode. The 'CE595 sounds right with SACDs, and 'C2000ES has that "rightness" too. It is honestly hard for me to qualify with certainty major differences between the 'CE595 and 'C2000ES in SACD mode. The 'C333ES and 'C555ES sound deeper and more well resolved, but I feel like I am being picky here.

In the end, I am going to keep the 'C2000ES. There is enough of a sonic upgrade over the 'CE595 for me to return the lesser expensive model. Being a gear geek, I also love the extras that the 'C2000ES offers -- gold-plated outputs, the headphone jack, and the better remote. Then there is the aesthetic side of me. I prefer the silver chassis of the 'C2000ES. Most of my components are black, so the 'C2000ES is a welcome change from the old guard.

If you are in the market for a new SACD player and are on a limited budget, you have two great changers to choose from. Without trying to sound too Park Avenue, get the 'CE595 if your budget is really tight. I would be remised if I told you that the 'C2000ES is worlds better. For me, the upgrades offered by the 'C2000ES are worth the extra $250, but the 'CE595 remains a killer player for $150. Regardless of which player you choose, you are getting an excellent value. Kudos to Sony.

 

Hi Keith,

Thanks for the extensive review. I am somewhat surprised that there was such a dramatic difference, but I have no doubt the power supplies and/or dac differences (?) can improve the sound in the ES model.

Enjoy your new piece!

 

No problem, Sam. I found a definite difference between the two players. The 'CE595 is impressive, but the 'C2000ES still improves on it. I honestly don't know if the players use the same DAC or not. It's been said that they share the same "board", so perhaps they use the same DAC. I've read that the 'C2000ES has an extra power supply and uses different capacitors.

I am eager to hear other opinions on these players.

 

Keith, great review!

Does the 'C2000ES read discs any faster than the 'CE595? I noticed, compared to my 'CE775, that the 'CE595 read discs slower (especially the initial TOC). The mechanism seemed slower as well. Maybe Sony did that to reduce the sound of the mechanism.

 

Matt, I didn't specifically compare the read times on the two players, but I have noticed that they are both slow. My wife ran the 'C2000ES the other night in all-disc shuffle mode and complained that it was slow to read discs. She's O.K. with it, but she wishes it were a bit faster.

By the way, while the tray mechanisms for the 'CE595 and 'C2000ES make some noises, they are quieter than those for the 'C333ES and 'C555ES. The 'C333ES makes a very loud click or thunk sound when you turn it on. The 'C555ES isn't nearly as bad, but it still has a noisier mechanism than the new changers.

 

I figure your new CD/SACD player will improve somewhat over time. All the Sonys do. Make the comparison after a couple of hundred hours and the 2000 could be much closer to the two ES players you own.

You may be a "gear geek" and love the headphone socket on your new player, but I bet you'll never use it. I disconnected the headphone amp on my SACD player - better sound; easy to do.

 

I certainly plan to do more comparisons down the road. For now, the 'C333ES and 'C555ES give better extension, especially with CDs. I just got done comparing "God Only Knows" from the DCC Pet Sounds CD on the 'C2000ES and 'C555ES. The french horn intro is "stuffy" on the 'C2000ES, while the french horn projects a bit better into the room on the 'C555ES. The solo vocals also project better on the 'C555ES. In short, the 'C555ES breathes easier. The 'C2000ES sounds a bit congested.

Regarding the headphone jack, you are probably right that I won't use it. The main reason is that I don't currently own headphones. Seriously, I've considered investing in a decent pair of headphones and a headphone amp for my better system, but it's not a must-have for now. As for the second system where the 'C2000ES resides, I could see buying a modest pair of headphones and plugging them directly in the player for casual listening someday. We'll see.

 

Thanks Keith! Much appreciated. Good to know my 333 is worth the trouble it is giving me now (have to send it in - reads discs about 30% of the time at this point, some not at all).

If you could, how noticeable is the difference between it and the C2000ES? I know it's difficult to quantify these things, but is the improvement with the 333 noticeable right away, or do you *really* have to concentrate? If I decide to push Sony for a replacement because of the static problem (which I haven't tested yet - no m/ch SACDs), I'd like to have an idea if I would be happy with the C2000ES (even though it goes for much less than the 333 did).

Also, I'm interested in read times as well (2000 vs. 333). My biggest complaint with the 333, when it is functioning, is the slow read times - I hate that long gap while shuffling when guests are over.

How did audiophiles live before the internet?!

 

Hi Guys!!!

This is my first post at this Forum and it will not be the last

Gracias KeithH for your review on the Sony SCD-C2000ES. I have being writing and searching about this unit since it went out. Like someone mentioned, Oade Bros. have them for $299 and Jim Oade wrote me about some basic mods he is performing on it. The mods has the advantage that it propels the performance of the basic unit without voiding the waranties.

A well recognized modifier and friend, took a look at the pictures from VentValve ( the original poster ) http://www.massivemaximumtheater.com/misc.htm and told me that these units were interesting for mods. Basically, the units PCB positioning has the advantage of free space. Other models from Sony has the PCB under the disc tray making it very hard for mods. The 2000ES uses separate transformers too, which is good.

Jim Oade wrote me these two e-mails...

Subject: Re: Sony SCD-C2000ES
>
> hi jose, the scdc200es is 295.00, plus 20.00 s/h.
> we are looking into doing upgrades on it, but have
> not completed the upgrades as of yet. we never cut
> any traces or use jumpers in our mods, we only replace
> sony parts, with other "better" sony parts, so the
> five year warranty stays in tact. we should have
> the mods worked out by weeks end. thanks...jim

Subject: Re: Fw: Re: Sony SCD-C2000ES

hi jose, we just hooked the 2000 up to a high end
system, as we had been listening on a mid fi shop
test system with near field monitors not set up in
the ideal fashion, and have come to the conclusion
that it blows away the old scdc555 and 222es. it has
a much more precise image, and a much deeper, wider,
and taller sound stage. it is also not so "aggressive",
or bright out of the box, but rather has a more open,
relaxed sound. i am happy to report these findings...jim

I was confronted with two options:

1- Buy the unit from a dealer and send it to my friend for mods or
2- Buy it already modified from Oade with full waranty.

Unfortunately, I have a third option now..NEITHER...

My birthday is next Friday and Tropical Storm Jeanne just changed everything. My $$$ reserve went down the drain after buying a few things due to the storm. The good thing is, that we are doing fine and that now I'm convinced about this unit when my funds are able to buy it.

KeithH, please, let us now how the unit improve after a few 100 hours.

Regards,

Jose/PR

 

Jose,

As I said to you over at head-fi.org when Ivan hit....please take care.

 

Welcome to the forum and thanks for the information, Jose! I wonder what modifications Oade will offer, and how much more Oade will charge for such modifications?

For what it is worth I have been very pleased with my 'CE595 so far. I also have to wonder, since the 'CE595 and 'C200ES are practically the same, if Oade will offer mods for the 'CE595.

 

SoundBoy...

Thanks again my dear friend. Your positive thoughs are VERY appreciated. Fortunately for us, Ivan never bother us but Jeanne, a Tropical Storm with 70 mph winds left 3 death people in PR, 12 at Dominican Republic and over a THOUSAND in Haiti. Just imagine a 1,000 bodies floating around the rivers on Haiti. The worst thing is, that it is taking a 360* and waiting to enter Florida who was hit twice by Ivan.

MattB...

Jim , from Oade Bros, never told me about the cost or mods performed to these units but I imagine he is swapping some of the filtering and analog caps for better parts from Sony ( maybe the caps used on better more expensive units) and he also talk about changing some chip-sets...maybe op-amps and DACS ???

They may be charging around $75 +/- but the full waranty will stay for 5 years. As soon as I know something new about, I will let you all know.

Regarding to the 595...I think it can be modded too and with great results based on the similarity of both units. Since this one is $149, you can put $200 worth of mods and have a much better unit ( maybe better than the 2000ES). The main internal difference is that it only uses one transformer for everything inside while the 2000ES uses 2 instead.

What I like about this units is that they are just CD/SACD machines with nothing added into video. Sine I have separate systems, I don't have to pay additional $$$ for something I will not use on my audio system.

Next time,

Jose/PR

 

Interesting comments form Oade (comparison to C555ES) - do you know if he was referring to SACD, CD, or both; and was this a modded or stock 2000ES he was using for comparison?

If it is stock, it contradicts Keith's opinions. Hmm.....

 

You got me!!!

I don't really know but based on the e-mails I can imagine a comparison with the modded unit only. The unit wasn't completely modified. It was a trial with the modifications available at that time, without chip-sets changes..That's what I understand. Also, he don't tell if it was using SACD or CD.

I will ask him to see the progress and what really mean by "modifications"...Everyone change what he thought is better. At least, Dan ( Wright) use to change the filtration caps, add some Bybee's , add an IEC adapter, use cryo treatment, use some Jenna Labs cable, damp the chassis and make some changes to the analog stages...wow!!! but it is expensive,,,

I would also like to know what Jim Oade means by "better Sony caps" ???? Nichicon Gold ??? could be.

Jose.

 

From Jim Oade:

I wonder if he is referring to the stock 'C2000ES. Note his comment about the 'C2000ES not being so aggressive out of the box. That implies that he is referring to the stock unit. If so, I can't agree with his assessment relative to the 'C555ES. I definitely don't fine the 'C2000ES to be aggressive, which I take to mean bright and harsh, but I still find the 'C555ES to have more authority. The 'C555ES gives a more layered, open, and deeper sound. The 'C2000ES is closed in by comparison.

Regarding Oade Bros., they are very nice to deal with. However, I have always found that they prefer new Sony ES components over models from the previous generation. It's been awhile since I've been in contact with them, but when I was shopping for ES receivers and SACD players, they always seemed to prefer the new models. Is that their honest assessment or do they just speak highly of what they can currently sell?

 

Great reviews, Keith. Thanks. I own a Sony DVP-NS755V (~$200). It's nice to know I can replace it (or add to) with the CE595. The price almost seems too good to be true.

 

No problem. The 'CE595 is an excellent value, though I haven't compared it to the 'NS755V.

 

Hi guys.

Now I'm confuced after this reply from Oade Bros.:

hola jose, at this time, after listening to the
unit, we are not offering any mods. they are using
some chip sets we are unfamiliar with, and we
can't currently get any data on them. it does
sound considerably better than the 555es out of
the box, with phenomenal imaging, and big sound
stage, and a much softer high end. thanks...jim

Is he refering to SACD? What about CD playback?

It is confucing and there are just a few audio bodies ( including Keith) that have bought or used these units. The informatio about it is very slow, maybe due to the fact that are relatively new and many people have already bought other units.

The same happens with the Toshiba SD-4960. I was expecting this units to explode after the success of the SD-3960 but both are different. In fact, the SD-4960 is really a Samsung unit with a rebashed name.

A partially modified 595CE could be a better choice in the affordable entry. What do you guys thing?

Jose.

 

Well, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Perhaps Jim Oade truly feels that the 'C2000ES is better than the 'C555ES. To my ears, the 'C555ES produces a bigger, more involving sound. I simply don't hear what Jim Oade claims to hear. All I can say is that I could see how the less revealing sound of the 'C2000ES could lead to the conclusion of a "much softer high end." However, I find that voices sound more natural on the 'C555ES. Again, the 'C2000ES sounds closed in and a muffled when compared to the 'C555ES. Just my opinion.

Given Jim Oade's knowledge of the internal construction of these players, I wonder what he attributes the better sound of the 'C2000ES to. We know that the 'C555ES has better overall construction. Does he feel that the 'C2000ES uses a better DAC? Does he feel that it has a better transport mechanism? I wonder.

 

To much wonders by now.

I doubt the 2000ES has better DACS than the 555ES. Even more, it seems that the DACS inside the 2000Es are the same used by the Toshiba SD-3960..BB-1751 !!

My local dealer ( Audio Works, San Juan PR ) DO NOT has the 2000ES and the manager is 100% sure he will not distribute this model. Having other models from Sony at a higher price and with DVD, is a better option for the store. They has the 999ES and NC555ES.

I really appreciate your reviews on these models and I'm sure the 555ES is the best machine. With limited funds the 2000Es should be a great option thought ( and maybe the CE595 is even better).

We need to keep searching the progress of these units.

Thanks,

Jose.

 

Thanks for the review Keith. Nice detail and thanks for listing associated components.

 

I share Keith's suspicions about Oade always recommending the most recent model. Everyone has their own opinions and associated systems, but it seems strange that they would think it "blows away" the old C555ES, while Keith, with a very thorough objective comparison, thinks the 2000 is closed in by comparison.

They ARE a business, y'know.

 

...and it seems that they are good at it

I have never bought anything from them but they are said to have a nice service and good prices ( for sure). BUT, Keith's review is first hand from an actual owner and with side-by-side comparisons...

As good as it can be for the money ( $400) it can't be as goos as the more expensive 555ES. The 555ES has some high regarded reviews and Stereophile's was very positive. If I end buying the 2000ES is for the affordable consideration and the fact that it is just a CD/SACD unit.

I just talked to the Audio Work manager who assist to a Sony Reunion in the States and he said he don't see any of the new units. They were showing some 70" TV's with Blue Laser technology and House Automatization Systems.

So I will have to buy my unit from a site distributor.

Jose.

 

Lee,

No problem!


TMan and Jose,

I am just expressing my opinion regarding Oade Bros. On the one hand, I have always found them to be polite on the phone and willing to discuss various components that they sell. They also have excellent prices, and I got my SCD-777ES from them at a great price four years ago. So, my experiences with them have been positive. However, I am suspicious when they time and again convey preference for a current component that they have available for sale over a discontinued product that they do not have available.

 

Your concern is valid and have its point since my dealer has the same politics.

In your opinion, based on your experiences with the 777, 555, 595 and 2000:

1- In %'s which one is 100% ( the best unit) and how does the others stand in SACd and CD playback.

For example ( I'm guessing here ) in SACD playback, 777 is 100% , 555 is 90% etc...
Same value system with CD playback...?

I know it is hard to said but it would be interesting to have a value relation against each other.

Jose.

*** What's up with Jeanne and Ivan..my goodness, this Ivan is incredible and Jeanne will take for ever to get to land...it will hit the Bahamas , AGAIN, this time as a Hurricane CAT-2***