Did Robbie Robertson take too much credit?

[Steve w]

Specifically, for writing The Band's songs? After their second album, he seemed to be the only one to write their songs, or at least take credit for it. I know Levon Helm had a falling out with him.

[Bill]

Mr. Robertson sure resembles a peacock thoughout "The Last Waltz," scarf and all! An amazing turnabout, given the Band's carefully cultivated initial low key image as a band of five, equal musicians. They seem to have gone downhill after the second (brown) album, as RR's self-image ascended. I'm sure drugs had a lot to do with it, but he really seems to have
developed a bad case of the Robbies.
A real pity, given how great (and timeless) those first two albums are.

[babyblue]

And Robbie's performance in the Last Waltz is all the more laughable when Levon revealed that his vocal mic was turned off throughout the show! Robbie also bronzed his guitar before the concert, which added considerably to it's weight, making it difficult to play. I think you could safely say Robbie takes a bit too much credit for everything!

Steve

[olsen]

What's writing and what's arranging? Robertson claims the band helped only with arrangements and he probably believes that to be true. But I've seen arranging sessions gut a song to the barest of bones, and reconstruct it in a better, but barely recognizable way. If a producer with clout does this he'll frequently insist on writing credit and get it. I'll bet Levon believes they performed a few major operations on Robbie's songs too.

[Metralla]

I love his post-Band work and greatly respect him for what he has done for the Native American cause. The stuff that happened in The Band is not uncommon with rock bands, and does not take the shine off Robbie as far as I'm concerned.

[czeskleba]

I find Levon Helm to be a really likable guy, and Robbie Robertson comes off as kind of an arrogant jerk in the Last Waltz and lots of interviews I've seen. That said, contributing to the arrangement of a song, or making occasional small lyrical suggestions, is not generally something that a person is given songwriting credit for. Maybe it should be, but it isn't, and Robertson's actions with publishing don't seem any different than any other songwriter of his generation. You don't seen Lennon/McCartney sharing songwriting credit with the other Beatles or George Martin, or Jagger/Richards with the other Stones, etc. If Robertson "took too much credit" then so did a lot of other people.

[James Glennon]

The best of friends, the worst of enemies!

Two sides to every story!

Ne'er the twain shall meet!

I only need to know their music, not their personal stuff! I have enough problems of my own, thank you!
JG

[Bill]

I'm with you, Steve; trust the art, not the artist.
Who knows what went on within the group to create its classic stuff?
That said, however, the guy does seem to be a preening jerk, but maybe was a swell person in the early years. None of us will ever know.
Screw it: I'm going to go listen to Chest Fever.

[Mick Jones]

Originally Posted by czeskleba

...or Jagger/Richards with the other Stones, etc.

I think that your Jagger/Richard example cuts both ways.

It must be very difficult as a member of a band to insist that your contributions are credited if the main song writers are used to routinely taking credit for everything written by the group. Pushing your claim could sour the working relationship, or lead to a split, or even result in the group disbanding.

There has been much written, by the participants and others, to suggest that Brian Jones, Bill Wyman and Mick Taylor contributed heavily to certain Stones songs without getting any publishing credit. However, look at the credits for Sister Morphine. An articulate, strong willed collaborator like Marianne Faithfull could manage to get Jagger/Richard to acknowledge their contribution, but of course Marianne wasn't one of the Stones.

[Paul C.]

I'm with Metralla... perhaps Robbie was more inclined to go for the spotlight, which left the other members of the Band a bit in the background. But there's no doubt about his songwriting abilities, and I'm not aware of him taking credit for stuff that he didn't contribute to. He probably is arrogant, but i think with his talent he can afford to be a bit - he is right into his music and I take my hat off to him for continuing to stretch himself with his solo works, from "Robbie Robertson" right up to "Underworld".

[rdnzl]

Originally Posted by Metralla

I love his post-Band work and greatly respect him for what he has done for the Native American cause. The stuff that happened in The Band is not uncommon with rock bands, and does not take the shine off Robbie as far as I'm concerned.

100% agree!

[rjp]

Originally Posted by Metralla

I love his post-Band work and greatly respect him for what he has done for the Native American cause. The stuff that happened in The Band is not uncommon with rock bands, and does not take the shine off Robbie as far as I'm concerned.

i agree.

if you haven't heard robertson's 4 solo albums, run out and get them as soon as possible.

renny

[Pug]

Originally Posted by rjp

i agree.

if you haven't heard robertson's 4 solo albums, run out and get them as soon as possible.

renny

The MoFi of Robbie's first album sounds good.

I've never thought that Robbie took too much credit. IMHO, his solo stuff is a LOT better than the last couple albums by the reformed Band which makes me believe he was responsible for a lot of it.

Having said that, I have 2 of Levon's solo rekkids and they be very good!

Sean

[John DeAngelis]

I read Levon Helm's book. He's confusing song arranging with song writing. Robbie Robertson wrote most of the Band's songs. When the other members of the Band realized how much extra money Robertson made from publishing, a lot of resentment built up. Mike Love probably resents Brian Wilson, but I don't believe him either.

[paulg61]

Originally Posted by czeskleba

I find Levon Helm to be a really likable guy, and Robbie Robertson comes off as kind of an arrogant jerk in the Last Waltz and lots of interviews I've seen.

Yeah - I love The Band (especailly the first 2 and with Zimmy) But that Robbie quote "The roads taken alot of the good ones - Jimi, Janis, - 16 years on the road, it's an impossible way of life man, it'll kill ya" (which always bothered me to begin with - as The Band toured so infrequently - I don't think they were on the road more than a cummulative total of 16 monthsl) - is now almost laughable! Even if it was 16 years -Tell that to Keith Richards - What with The Stones (who actually have been on the road pretty consistently ) touring for over 40 years now!

[Richard Feirstein]

Levon quit the group (Hawks) soon after it went on a world tour with Dylan (65-66). It was his group till then. He did not rejoin the group until late in the Basement Tapes process. In retrospect that may have been a mistake since Robbie seemed to take a leadership roll at that point.

Also note that when Robbie left the group, and they came back together to record, they did not write any notible song. That says a lot, IMO.

When the last concert was filmed the group was already done in by mental problems and substance abuse. Very sad but true. Recently the Hawk put out a CD in which Robbie and Leevon appear together on the same track (they did not know what he had in mind and they recorded on seperate dates). The Hawk thought they should put the past behind them.

Richard.

[ed hughes]

Originally Posted by James Glennon

The best of friends, the worst of enemies!

Two sides to every story!

Ne'er the twain shall meet!

I only need to know their music, not their personal stuff! I have enough problems of my own, thank you!
JG

Well said,I get so sick of reading about this b.s. It starts to detract from the music for me

[Mark]

I've been a huge Band fan for many, many years and I believe that Robbie Robertson is one of the finest songwriters and guitarists of the generation. None of us, of course, were there, but it seemed that, after the first two albums that a number of non-musical distractions hit various group members. Robertson may well have been exposed to that (I mean, come on, how could he not?) but he seems to have been able to avoid the downfalls to some great degree. He has always said, as I recall, that he wrote his songs for Richard, Rick and Levon to sing, and that all participated in the arrangements, suggesting who would sing, how choruses would be approached, etc. I also remember reading that he encouraged all three of them to write, but that, probably from the distractions, they lost focus (Robertsons' words that I am paraphrasing) after the second album. I have never really read the absolute genesis of Levon's problems with him, and I would be interested to know where the friction all got started. I would bet, without any first hand knowledge, that "TLW" situation was the culmination, not the beginning, of it.

[Phenomenal Cat]

Originally Posted by Mick Jones

I think that your Jagger/Richard example cuts both ways.

It must be very difficult as a member of a band to insist that your contributions are credited if the main song writers are used to routinely taking credit for everything written by the group. Pushing your claim could sour the working relationship, or lead to a split, or even result in the group disbanding.

There has been much written, by the participants and others, to suggest that Brian Jones, Bill Wyman and Mick Taylor contributed heavily to certain Stones songs without getting any publishing credit. However, look at the credits for Sister Morphine. An articulate, strong willed collaborator like Marianne Faithfull could manage to get Jagger/Richard to acknowledge their contribution, but of course Marianne wasn't one of the Stones.

While it may be unpleasant to find out what happens behind the scenes, it is important (to some) to know about this stuff because we find that our invincible little bands ("Beggars Banquet" + "Let it Bleed" + "Sticky Fingers" + "Exile on Main Street"= the Golden Age) suddenly become mediocre at best ("Goat's Head Soup" + "It's Only Rock and Roll" + "Black and Blue"= what the Hell happened?) If Bill Wyman did indeed contribute the main riff to "Jumping Jack Flash" and received no credit, how often do you think he's going to keep offering his ideas? This is where the rot sets in, and in many, many instances this is why your favorite band bites the dust.

[Squealy]

But that Robbie quote "The roads taken alot of the good ones - Jimi, Janis, - 16 years on the road, it's an impossible way of life man, it'll kill ya" (which always bothered me to begin with - as The Band toured so infrequently - I don't think they were on the road more than a cummulative total of 16 monthsl) - is now almost laughable! Even if it was 16 years -Tell that to Keith Richards - What with The Stones (who actually have been on the road pretty consistently ) touring for over 40 years now!

Yes, the world-weariness is funny when you watch The Last Waltz now and consider how young they were at that time. Robbie Robertson was only 33!