Elvis.com responded to my e-mail re: no mono mix on 1968 Comeback Special DVD

Here is my original e-mail:

At 03:53 PM 5/27/04, you wrote:
>Name: David Olstein
>E-mail: [email protected]
>Comments: According to the press release, the original mono soundtrack for
>the 1968 Comeback Special has been rechanelled to stereo and 5.1. Can you
>confirm whether the DVD will also include orignial mono soundtrack? With
>all due respect, fake stereo is bad. Fake 5.1 surround stereo is even
>worse. Leaving off the original soundtrack is simply unforgivable. I
>find it really disturbing that after the tremendous effort that went into
>providing fans with all the original footage from the special, somebody
>would decide to compromise the release by omitting the original soundtrack.

Here is the response I received from [email protected]:

No separate original mono track - it wasn't considered. The remastering
and rechanneling work was very sensitive to the integrity of the
original. There is nothing at all to be upset about. You'll see - er,
"hear" - for yourself.

Besides, had we wanted to do this, the music publishers could have argued
(and won) that putting all the music on the DVD set a second time should
double their fees, or at least increase them significantly.

Here is my response to their response:

With all due respect, rechanneling a mono mix into 5.1 surround is inherently insensitive to the integrity of the original, no less so than, for instance, rechanneling Elvis' Sun recordings into stereo.

Your argument regarding publishing fees would be more convincing were it not for the fact (according to the press release) that you already include multiple soundtracks (Dolby Digital 2.0 and 5.1) on the DVD. Given that two soundtracks are apparently acceptable, it would have made far more sense to include a mono PCM soundtrack and a Dolby Digital 5.1 soundtrack (which any DVD player could downmix to 2.0).

Sorry, but I still find it hard to understand just why you would never even consider including the mono mix -- the mix that the sound engineers who worked on the original broadcast prepared and the only mix Elvis Presley himself ever heard or approved during his lifetime.

 

A few things don't make sense here...the first obviously being, if you only have mono for portions of the show, why worry about it? Just leave it mono in two speakers, who's going to care? But even if they felt a need to 5.1 it to make it 'kind of compatible' with the rest, why not offer that second audio track in mono only. Hell, they could include a track that replicates the Lp itself: some mono, some stereo....I agree, their logic is mystifying, but this is what happens when the wrong cooks are stirring the broth....

I felt the same about AHDN...for whatever twisted and pointless reasons, if they felt they had to futz around with the sound track to make it 'more modern,' then why not offer the original flat mono? With the Ed Sullivan DVD, yeah, there was a semblance of faux 5.1, but the flat mono track was there, too, which is what any sane person would want to hear.

Suppose we should be happy that second Elvis collection wasn't 5.1'd....

 

How's that for a steaming heap o' fertilizer? Criminy - rechanneling in the 21st century - why??? Where's Ernst Jorgensen??? Help!!!!

 

I think this is probably garbage. I know in the case of CDs, publishing royalties are paid once per song, per album, regardless of how many times the song appears (I remember reading about how the list price of the Beach Boys box set was kept relatively low because disc five consisted entirely of alternate takes of songs that appeared elsewhere on the set, and thus didn't accrue any additional publishing fees). I would assume the rules are the same for DVDs as for CDs.

 

I just received the following e-mail from [email protected]:

<<The publishing thing was speculation. As it turns out, you're probably
right that it wouldn't have been a problem on that front.

Again, we're very pleased with how the sound is dealt with and are
deeply proud of the project overall. Maybe you could consider
withholding any further criticism until you actually hear it.

Thanks for caring.>>

Well, at least they have the guts to respond. Still, it looks like they're having a hard time justifying the exclusion of the original mono mix. It really bothers me that they spent all this time looking for every scrap of video footage to include in the DVD set, but never even considered including the original sound mix. Unlike Steve Hoffman, I'll still buy this set, because I don't have it on video or laserdisc. But I'll know that the despite all the effort that went into it, it is still isn't as good, or "definitive" as it should be.

And yeah, I'd certainly like to know what Ernst Jorgensen thinks of this too.

 

I am glad they are pleased.

I know I always look forward to listening to those old Elvis re-channeled tracks! I bet the labeling will not even reflect this re-channeling?

No thanks...

Bob

 

Grrrrrrrr - rechanneling always is junky/crummy/stinky/awful/putrid - I don't have to hear it to know that it's goonna be icky - grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

What a let down, after finally having everything in one package. Is the CD version mono?

 

Hm, so rechanneling original stereo mixes for surround sound is OK (that's essentially what most pop SACDA/DVD-A's are doing today), but rechanneling an original mono source for 5.1 is not? I would consider both to be gimmicky in the first place...
-wolf

 

But most SACDs and DVD-As (with the exception of
Silverline) are remixed, not rechanneled into surround. In the case of Elvis, it's a manipulation of sound. Nevertheless, I will get the DVD, and I'm pretty sure it won't be as putrid as those early 1960s rechanneling jobs.

 

David,

Thnx for your effort in getting this sort of feeble explanation from elvis, inc. I, too, was flabbergasted at this when I first raised the issue here, and amazed that Jergensen might have had sign-off.

I don't think they understand that what they're doing is considered a really bad idea regardless of how "good" and sensitively they've done it.

I'll buy it for the visuals, and hope for the "best" on the audio.

doug

 

Check out the debate on the Elvis Collector's Bulletin Board:

http://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9690&start=0

 

And here's another thread:

http://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9601

 

wow! those people are really nasty to each other.

I think it's better here. you can disagree and still not insult each other.

doug

 

This is depressing news I was hoping that someone like Vic Anesini would remaster the audio (in mono of course). I don't want fake 5.1. You know, if Elvis is alive, this would kill him!

 

so are they adding artificial digital reverb in order to "fan out" the mono source to multiple speakers in a simulated 5.1 environment? yuck!! i bet bones howe (original engineer) isn't too pleased about this.

 

So, when this comes out do we flood this email address with complaints?

 

Isn't that what they did to the mono tracks on the Elvis 30#1 Hits DVD-A? From what I recall they recorded a feed from some monitor speakers into a pair of microphones and built the rear tracks from those.

Elvis would turn in his grave. Apparently BMG/EPE hasn't learned from the mistakes that RCA did in the 50's when they started adding echo to his Sun recordings. History is repeating itself even in audio engineering...
-wolf

 

The stereo hits sound ok in 5.1, but the mono hits do not sound good (IMO).

 

Bingo! I am not sure the folks at that Forum really understand the sound engineering issues you were working so hard to explain. It is official - the sound on this DVD will be re-processed from a Mono audio track. This is criminal...

From the official EPE/BMG Press release:

"The original videotape material for this program has been digitally remastered and restored. The audio, originally recorded in mono, has been digitally remastered and rechanneled for Dolby Digital stereo and 5.1 surround."


Bob

 

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

As much as I'm a 5.1 guy, this should be illegal!

 

If this string from the Elvis Fan site is accurate, it tells one sad audio story:

1.) The production numbers were recorded at Western Sound on multitrack. High quality stereo mixes exist that could have been overdubbed for the DVD production numbers, as Elvis was essentially lip-synching to these songs anyway. The exception would be Trouble/Guitar Man and If I Can Dream (white suit), where Elvis overdubbed a live vocal at NBC over the Western Sound pre-recorded backing tracks.

So the only extant video that could be presented in stereo by overdubbing the BMG masters on the DVD is:

a.) the Gospel Medley
b.) Road Medley (excluding black leather Trouble live performance)
c.) If I Can Dream (Black leather version lip synch version)

2.) Everything at Burbank was recorded in mono. Both the mono NBC videotape's audio track, as well as the RCA audio tapes were recorded from the same line feed engineered by Bones Howe. However, RCA's tape recorder was of significantly higher quality than the videotape recorders audio head. Therefore, I think Gerry is suggesting that the BMG mono tapes of the sitdown and standup shows are superior in resolution, frequency response and wow and flutter to the lower fidelity mono audio track on the NBC videotapes. I think Bones Howe had kept these tapes in his garage for a number of years to save them from being discarded by RCA. They were used on BMGs CD upgrades of this material back in 1998.

So the point that Gerry makes is that the DVD could have sounded better by using BMG's higher fidelity stereo and mono sources, instead of the lower fidelity mono tracks on the NBC videotapes.

Despite everyone attacking Gerry, I do believe he raises valid points. He just wants the DVDs to sound as good as BMG's "Tiger Man" and "Memories" cds that were issued back in 1998.

However, despite EPE not using the best available sound sources, I am excited about this DVD set, and I will purchase it. Hopefully, this was sourced from the first generation videotapes and will look superb.