Technics SL-1200/1210, anyone use one for listening?..

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Tetrack, May 20, 2004.

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  1. Tetrack

    Tetrack Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Scotland, UK.
    I've been thinking about possibly buying one in the near future, attracted primarily by the rock solid pitch stability it offers. This led me into some investigation on this deck and i realize that i was under some misconceptions about it. Here are a couple -

    A Deck only for DJs
    Heavy tonearm with heavy tracking forces

    My investigation reveals otherwise, the tonearm is actually 12g effective mass, that's only 1g more than the Rega RB250 at 11g, making it a mid-ish mass arm. Also the Max. Tracking Force on the tonearm is only 2.5g, not the 4-5g i had imagined, having associated it with heavy tracking Stanton 500 AL carts, which seem to be a common standard). Add in adjustable VTA on the fly and it sounds pretty good.

    Anyone use one for purely listening purposes?. Any comment welcomed. :)
     
  2. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Sometimes I use a modified one sort of like this from:
    http://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?ttables.htm

    (Click on "AUDIOPHILE")
    ----------------------------------



    TECHNICS SL-1200 MK5 SE
    33 45 RPM MANUAL TURNTABLE

    Looking for an audiophile quality turntable and doing price comparisons? STOP.... The turntable you are about to read about embodies technology that would take literally millions of dollars to create today. Further, the casting, machining and material science used in this deck are economically out of reach of today's audiophile turntable companies. It is called market economics, it's an important component when determining value, and I hope you will read on. Click here to read the tale of one customer's trek from 1200 through the audiophile jungle only to return to the 1200!

    The KAB Special Edition version of the Technics SL-1200 MK5 is especially customized for home use. We replace the DJ mats with the Technics heavy super mat and we also re-install the dustcover hinges. A $42 value. We also install a Stanton Calibration Standard 681EEE MKIII Phono Cartridge. A $130 Value. Also available without a cartridge.

    Technics developed the 1200 series 24 years ago to be the standard for broadcast and professional use. It's precision performance and unusual build quality enable it to easily compare to hi end 'tables costing 10 times as much. Let's start with the 3 layer body construction. It is very important to the neutral sonic character of the 1200. Click here for Technical drawing of body. Called a constrained layer design, the three disimilar materials, in intimate contact, form a solid base that is incapable of supporting resonance. You may not be taking your 1200 to the disco, but isn't it comforting to know that the engineers who designed it gave some thought to that environment. And if a turntable can perform in a 100+ dB sound field, you can be sure it will be spectacular in your living room.

    The motor drive system is rock solid and incredibly accurate. It is an optimally damped, direct drive system using a 3 phase 12 pole motor with zero crossing drive for extremely quiet rotation, and a self validating frequency generator right on the platter. As the integral platter magnet rotates past the frequency generator coil, a distortionless sine wave is produced representing the exact movement of the platter. This ensures tightly controlled rotation reflected by the amazingly low wow and flutter spec of 0.01% . The spindle bearing , anchored to the cast aluminum base, is a massive 1/4" polished stainless steel shaft closely machined through a 1" long bronze bearing.


    This servo drive system responds "just in time" to both static and dynamic stylus drag. It follows strong amplitudes so well that there are no audible changes in speed. The pitch of a loud crescendo stays constant as it fades away. The same cannot be said of most belt drive systems. This sort of sophisticated circuitry can be expensive to develop. Why, it can cost $100,000.00 or more to develop a single Application Specific Integrated Circuit like those found in the 1200. There are 2 LSI ASIC circuits and 1 MSI PLL in the Technics 1200 drive system.

    And remember, the reason rumble is so low in the 1200 is precisely because of four things.
    1. Rotation occurs at exact platter speed.
    2. The power to the motor is infinitely controllable, and is very very low in normal use.
    3. The power is applied at the most rigid part of the platter system: the spindle.
    4. Unlike a belt drive system that tugs on the spindle bearing, direct drive systems have equal forces acting on the bearing resulting in longer life and much quieter bearing noise.



    The platter is itself a non-resonant 5 Lb affair. Made from cast aluminum, precision machined, and damped with hard rubber on the bottom . Built in strobe display indicates exact speed at a glance. The top mat is 17 Oz. alone and is properly shaped to accept 45 rpm singles as well. 45's are thicker in the middle then on the groove surfaces and flat platter mats cannot support them properly.


    This tonearm is one of the great examples of the Gimbal Bearing system, the rotational center of which is precisely defined at one point. Designed at the height of the first audiophile revolution in the late '70's. When the demands were 3/4 gram tracking forces and the requirement to trace groove modulations to 45 Khz (remember CD-4?) The 1200 tonearm is a low - medium mass arm with precision bearings , polished to a finish of ± 0.5 microns, featuring 0.007 gram friction. The arm base utilizes a uniquely machined brass ring featuring a 3-step, deep, hi speed thread machined into it. Just like a camera lens focus ring, this produces a high precision VTA adjustment. The threads are sealed with a damping grease to give a nice feel to the adjustment. Interconnect cable features a very flexible foamed polyethylene dielectric to minimize the passage of vibration up to the tonearm. Cables are a major pathway for vibration to enter the tonearm and color the sound. The Counterweight is calibrated in grams, properly decoupled and has a nice solid feel to it. Adjustments are quick and reliable. Ditto for Anti-Skate which uses the progressive spring tension method. Easy to adjust, even when the record is playing.



    This should be your turntable if:

    You are sensitive to pitch variation. Especially in long fades.
    You need isolation from acoustic vibration
    You crave the kind of rock solid stability that digital offers, but with the musicality of vinyl.
    This really should be your last turntable!
     
    Robert C likes this.
  3. Tetrack

    Tetrack Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Scotland, UK.
    Thanks for the link, good information there. I should have mentioned in the title SL1200/1210 MkII, for the related specs/info i mentioned.
     
  4. bonjo

    bonjo Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    I use a (stock) 1200 Mk2. The build quality is miles above any other turntable that i've seen under $1000 - I'm betting it will be the last turntable that I ever buy. In addition, it's simple to set-up, provides all the adjustments you need (including VTA), includes a handy pop-up stylus light, and plays records at exactly 33.3 and 45rpm. I'm not sure what else you could want from a turntable.

    Unfortunately, the Mk2 is discontinued. The Mk5 is supposed to me the same mechanically, but with some dubious DJ features thrown in: a pitch 'reset' button, no more dust cover hinges, and a dopey 'DJ' mat that looks a lot worse than the nice, thick rubber one that came with the Mk2.

    - joe s
     
  5. Paul G

    Paul G Senior Member

    Location:
    New York, NY, USA
    I've used a Technics SL-1200M3D since October 2002 coupled with a Shure V15VxMR. I do not know how high-end setups are supposed to sound, but my Technics/Shure setup at least plays my records at a steady pitch and tracks them well.
     
  6. Lord Hawthorne

    Lord Hawthorne Currently Untitled

    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    I've been very happy with my Technics SL 1200 MK3D. It's as dependable as gravity.
     
  7. -=Rudy=-

    -=Rudy=- ♪♫♪♫♫♪♪♫♪♪ Staff

    Location:
    US
    I'd settle for one with a busted arm: I'd move my Grace G707II over to it. Pitch is a big deal for me. ;)
     
  8. Jeff H.

    Jeff H. Senior Member

    Location:
    Northern, OR
    IMHO, Technics has never been able to improve upon the SL-1200 MK2. That is their masterpiece. 1210 and later generation models are fine but the thing that drive me nuts about them has to do with the turntables' pitch control. The one on the MK2 model locks in the center, but the others have a button to the left of the pitch control slide that's supposed to automatically lock the motor at exactly 33 1/3 or 45 rpm. Who thought this up and thought it would be more convienient??? I say leave well enough alone.
     
  9. kwadguy

    kwadguy Senior Member

    Location:
    Cambridge, MA
    Actually if those are your criteria, especially the one about pitch variation, your turntable should be a Nakamichi TX-1000 or (if you aren't as flush) a Nakamichi Dragon CT. These turntables (and only these turntables) automatically center your vinyl records before playing them, to adjust for holes that are not quite centered (which is most of them). They also use electronic speed control to ensure the correct speed is maintained. (The TX-1000 allows you to specify the speed in increments of 0.1 rpm). They are also both built like rocks.

    They are amazing works of design. Too bad they came out just when CDs were taking off (1982-83) and were produced in very small numbers. (Under a 100 TX-1000 tables were distributed in North America). Oh, and they cost a mint. (TX-1000 was about $8000 in 1982, and that did not include a tonearm; Dragon CT came out the next year for about $1800 with tonearm and cartridge).

    The Technics tables are well made and surely offer better value than high end tables produced in miniscule numbers. But the Technics ain't no Nakamichi!

    Kwad
     
  10. Barry Wom

    Barry Wom New Member

    Location:
    Pepperland
    A Rega P2 or P3 will easily outperform the SL1200 - and I for one would not want to track a cartridge at 5gms + on my records.

    They are robust , and that's about it.

    I've A/B'd them many times

    Tim
     
  11. Damián

    Damián Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Spain now
    You don't have to track at 5 g unless you want to. The arm on the SL1200 has markings from 0 to 2.5 like most other turntables on the market. You can of course track heavier than that, but that doesn't mean you have to.
     
    Technocentral likes this.
  12. Barry Wom

    Barry Wom New Member

    Location:
    Pepperland

    It really all depends on the cartridge - in the UK a lot of DJ's use an Ortofon Nightclub or Concorde which recommend 3gm - most use 4.5+ - this cannot do records any good.

    They hold their value really well in the UK as they are so fashionable, so I don't regard them
    as good value for money - I still think an entry level Rega will give you more music

    tim
     
  13. bonjo

    bonjo Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    I wouldn't want to track a cartridge at 5g+ either, and I don't. My Shure V15 tracks at 1.5g, measured with a Shure stylus gauge, and I use a 1200 Mk2. Believe it or not, even though the Technics has long been marketed to DJs, it is still a real turntable and you can use any cartridge you'd like.

    I'm glad you've A/B'd the Rega and Technics for everyone. Was it a double-blind test, or was that unnecessary? :rolleyes:

    - joe s
     
  14. Barry Wom

    Barry Wom New Member

    Location:
    Pepperland
    well I was drunk once so that may count as double blind !
    the customer chooses the Rega everytime, not me. But as I always say if we all liked the same thing the world would be boring.

    of course if the user is going to be scratching then it's the 1210 everytime

    tim
     
  15. bonjo

    bonjo Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    yep. And if the user is pining for the approval of the Audio High Priests, it's the Rega all the way! :)

    joe s
     
  16. Tetrack

    Tetrack Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Scotland, UK.
    Thanks for all the comments. The Technics is realistically in my price range, I have owned in the past a Rega P2 and currently own a more basic Goldring GR1 which is another Rega planar based deck.
    I suffered some pitch stability problems with both the P2 and now the Goldring GR1(to a lesser extent), a new belt in both cases seems to solve the problem.
    However as both were brand new, out of the box decks, i don't think you should have to buy a new replacement belt, in order to get it running at a consistent speed!. They both look and more importantly sound good though.
    These pitch problems have probably induced some paranoia but the Technics seems a possible viable alternative for the future. Thanks again. :)
     
  17. romanotrax

    romanotrax Forum Resident

    Location:
    Aurora IL
    As a DJ I have used 1200's for about 22 years (both mkI and mkII). I liked the MKII so much I boutght one for home and I couldn't be happier. Mine is now about 10 years old and works as well today as when I first bought it. It is a rock solid table. I have never had one break down and the only drawback is replacing the platter light if it burns out (mine did after 8 years). You have to do it from the bottom of the table and can be a pain if you are not patient.
     
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