Burning HDCD to cd-r (unconventional method)

RickH · 05-06-2004, 09:13 AM

Strange question here, but I'm wondering about making a cd-r copy of an HDCD title. I know that if you make a computer copy that the cd-r picks up the HDCD encoding and plays back "encoded" on players that encode HDCD. However, if you play them back on regular (non-encoding) players, they won't have quite the same higher-quality playback as if they were being encoded, although they'll still sound fine. Here's my question: if I played an HDCD disc on an HDCD-encoding player and burned that in real time to my computer's hard drive (via cable to receiver, then to sound card) would I thereby be picking up the higher fidelity effects of encoding that then would be heard in a non-encoding player (ie, car stereo)? Anyway, I'll be trying it out and come back with my results.

Grant · 05-06-2004, 12:04 PM

If you have a good soundcard, go for it.

grx8 · 05-06-2004, 01:12 PM

From what I understand, the HDCD encoding is in every track, so If you rip a HDCD CD into wav, and then burn it to a CDR, you should have the exactly same track, HDCD encoded. Try it using WMP 9.

I dont think using the SoundCard is a good method. Maybe because too many D/A convertions.

fjhuerta · 05-06-2004, 01:38 PM

HDCD decoded will sound better than undecoded... because it "simulates" a higher bit depth. There's no way you can capture that higher bit rate, and other HDCD tricks in 16 bit audio.

That, and you might add some noise from the electronics involved, and the added DAC-ADC chain... I'd say it's not worth it.

ybe · 05-06-2004, 01:59 PM

Yes, go for it and compare the waveform of the ripped file to the recorded one. Should be interesting.

RickH · 05-07-2004, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ybe

Yes, go for it and compare the waveform of the ripped file to the recorded one. Should be interesting.

I'm not savvy on comparing waveforms, but I did make an "HDCD drop" last night of two tracks from the City of Angels soundtrack (Paula Cole, Jimi Hendrix), and 3 songs from the Beach Boys' Friends-20/20 disc. On comparison listening on a pair of Walkman headphones, I can't say that the HDCD-encoded tracks direct to the hard drive are any better-sounding than just playing the disc in a non-HDCD player. It definitely sounds good though, especially in the car player, but I haven't done a real comparison with listening on my home speakers. But, in all probability at this point I'd say fjhuerta's comments above are on the money.

Sckott · 05-07-2004, 09:37 AM

I agree with Javier. Trying to use a cheap way around getting that extra 4 fake bits using a computer sound card and then re-encoding it back to 16 again is a little extreme, but does eat up time on your hands - if that's a good thing?

Then again you could just get a cheap HDCD and do some real comparitive listening... I'd rather do that then extract, record, HD lights going nutty....yawn...and you're still listening to it on the same CD player.

HDCD is neat, but it's just anoher technology trying to stuff the 16 bit bag. I'd rahter the disc be engineered well with a decent DAE and not max the waveform. There's your true dynamics!

Chris R · 05-08-2004, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fjhuerta

HDCD decoded will sound better than undecoded... because it "simulates" a higher bit depth. There's no way you can capture that higher bit rate, and other HDCD tricks in 16 bit audio.

That, and you might add some noise from the electronics involved, and the added DAC-ADC chain... I'd say it's not worth it.

You could record the tracks in 32 bit float using CEP and then convert back to 16 bit for the CD-R burn.

05-06-2004, 09:13 AM	#1
RickH Crossfade & Sequencing Artiste Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC Posts: 3,866	Burning HDCD to cd-r (unconventional method) Strange question here, but I'm wondering about making a cd-r copy of an HDCD title. I know that if you make a computer copy that the cd-r picks up the HDCD encoding and plays back "encoded" on players that encode HDCD. However, if you play them back on regular (non-encoding) players, they won't have quite the same higher-quality playback as if they were being encoded, although they'll still sound fine. Here's my question: if I played an HDCD disc on an HDCD-encoding player and burned that in real time to my computer's hard drive (via cable to receiver, then to sound card) would I thereby be picking up the higher fidelity effects of encoding that then would be heard in a non-encoding player (ie, car stereo)? Anyway, I'll be trying it out and come back with my results.

05-06-2004, 01:59 PM	#5
ybe Forum Addict Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Hämeenlinna, Finland Posts: 1,184	Yes, go for it and compare the waveform of the ripped file to the recorded one. Should be interesting. __________________ -Markus "Be gone you ever piercing Power Play machine"

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05-06-2004, 12:04 PM	#2
Grant Forum member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: If the rain comes, they run and hide their heads... Posts: 72,946	If you have a good soundcard, go for it.

05-06-2004, 01:12 PM	#3
grx8 Forum Addict Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 1,308	From what I understand, the HDCD encoding is in every track, so If you rip a HDCD CD into wav, and then burn it to a CDR, you should have the exactly same track, HDCD encoded. Try it using WMP 9. I dont think using the SoundCard is a good method. Maybe because too many D/A convertions.

05-06-2004, 01:38 PM	#4
fjhuerta Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: México City Posts: 6,006	HDCD decoded will sound better than undecoded... because it "simulates" a higher bit depth. There's no way you can capture that higher bit rate, and other HDCD tricks in 16 bit audio. That, and you might add some noise from the electronics involved, and the added DAC-ADC chain... I'd say it's not worth it.

05-07-2004, 09:37 AM	#7
Sckott Goodbye. Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: MA Posts: 19,949	I agree with Javier. Trying to use a cheap way around getting that extra 4 fake bits using a computer sound card and then re-encoding it back to 16 again is a little extreme, but does eat up time on your hands - if that's a good thing? Then again you could just get a cheap HDCD and do some real comparitive listening... I'd rather do that then extract, record, HD lights going nutty....yawn...and you're still listening to it on the same CD player. HDCD is neat, but it's just anoher technology trying to stuff the 16 bit bag. I'd rahter the disc be engineered well with a decent DAE and not max the waveform. There's your true dynamics!