Classical artists blind comparison #10 - Erlkönig (Schubert, trans. Liszt)

Classical artists blind comparison #10!

Here we go. Trying an entirely new format this time. NO RANKING. That’s right no ranking. I want to take the horse race aspect out of it and try to gear the whole thing towards discussion about the qualities of the performances both in their interpretation and their execution. So the protocols this time would be to listen to the pieces and then comment on them. But to prevent bias effects I would like for all initial comments to either be PMed to me or posted with spoilers. I want to give that stage a week.
Then in the following week I will post all the PMs and all of the spoiler covered posts. Then we have an open discussion for one more week. Then I do the reveal

The piece……
Schubert’s Erlkonig transcribed by Liszt.

I will post three sets of the eight selections as MP3s, WAVs and FLACs so you all can pick your favorite format.

Here is some interesting info on all things Erlkonig
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Erlkönig

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/61803565/classical music folder/1 Erlkonig.flac
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/61803565/classical music folder/2 Erlkonig.flac
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/61803565/classical music folder/3 Erlkonig.flac
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/61803565/classical music folder/4 Erlkonig.flac
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/61803565/classical music folder/5 Erlkonig.flac
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/61803565/classical music folder/6 Erlkonig.flac
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/61803565/classical music folder/7 Erlkonig.flac
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/61803565/classical music folder/8 Erlkonig.flac


https://dl.dropbox.com/u/61803565/classical music folder/1 Erlkonig.mp3
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/61803565/classical music folder/2 Erlkonig.mp3
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/61803565/classical music folder/3 Erlkonig.mp3
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/61803565/classical music folder/4 Erlkonig.mp3
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/61803565/classical music folder/5 Erlkonig.mp3
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/61803565/classical music folder/6 Erlkonig.mp3
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/61803565/classical music folder/7 Erlkonig.mp3
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/61803565/classical music folder/8 Erlkonig.mp3


https://dl.dropbox.com/u/61803565/classical music folder/1 Erlkonig.wav
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/61803565/classical music folder/3 Erlkonig.wav
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/61803565/classical music folder/4 Erlkonig.wav
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/61803565/classical music folder/5 erlkonig.wav
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/61803565/classical music folder/6 Erlkonig.wav
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/61803565/classical music folder/7 Erlkonig.wav
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/61803565/classical music folder/8 Erlkonig.wav

So the first deadline is next Monday August 13th for the spoiler covered posts and PMs of all commentary. Then a week of open discussion after all posts and PMs are revealed. Then on 20th the artists will be unveiled.

 

Great transcription! Saying that while giving this a much needed bump.

I think you should have included the name of the piece in your topic title as I'm sure such a famous song (for those who know the first thing about classical music at least) will attract more participants - would it be a good idea to ask a mod to change it?

 

I have no problem with changing it

 

bump

 

Done, hope you're OK with the change!

I'll have a look at those selections later today, look forward to hearing them.

 

Very much so. Hopefully it will lead more folks into the thread and the conversation will go somewhere.

 

bump

 

Here's the sheet music for anyone who can read music - very old publication I'm afraid, but that's the only link I could find with this piece only (this piece was originally published in a group of 12 Liszt-Schubert transcriptions):

http://petrucci.mus.auth.gr/imglnks/usimg/a/a8/IMSLP14355-S558v04.pdf

Just listening to the set now; apologies for doing it later than I said I would, but I'm on holiday at the moment and been out most of the day. Listening to them on an Windows XP laptop with headphones and no speakers - hopefully that won't adversely affect my judgement of the older/less well recorded performances.

 

Here is a little background on the music from the Wikipedia article

"Franz Schubert composed his Lied, "Der Erlkönig", for solo voice and piano in 1815, setting text from the Goethe poem. Schubert revised the song three times before publishing his fourth version in 1821 as his Opus 1; it was cataloged by Otto Erich Deutsch as D. 328 in his 1951 catalog of Schubert's works. The song was first performed in concert on December 1, 1820, at a private gathering in Vienna, and received its public premiere on March 7, 1821, at Vienna's Theater am Kärntnertor.

The four characters in the song – narrator, father, son, and the Erlking – are usually all sung by a single vocalist; occasionally, however, the work is performed by four individual vocalists (or three, with one taking the parts of both the narrator and the Erlking). Schubert placed each character largely in a different vocal range, and each has his own rhythmic nuances; in addition, most singers endeavor to use a different vocal coloration for each part.

The Narrator lies in the middle range and is in minor mode.
The Father lies in the low range and sings both in minor mode and major mode.
The Son lies in a high range, also in minor mode, representing the fright of the child.
The Erlking's vocal line undulates up and down to arpeggiated accompaniment resulting in striking contrast and is in the major mode. The Erlking lines are typically sung pianissimo.

A fifth character, the horse, is implied in rapid triplet figures played by the pianist throughout the work, mimicking hoof beats.[4]

"Erlkönig" starts with the piano rapidly playing triplets of a repeated note in octaves to create a sense of urgency and simulate the horse's galloping. Meanwhile rising triplets in the bass add a horror theme to the piece. These motifs continue throughout. Each of the son's pleas grows louder and higher-pitched than the previous ones. Near the very end of the piece the music quickens, as the father desperately tries to spur his horse to go faster, then slows down, as he arrives. The piano stops before the final line, "In seinen Armen das Kind war tot" ("In his arms the child was dead"). The piece then ends with a dramatic perfect authentic cadence.

The piece is regarded as extremely challenging to perform due to the vocal characterization required of the vocalist as well as its difficult accompaniment, involving the playing of rapidly repeated chords and octaves to create the drama and urgency in the poetry.

The song was transcribed for solo piano by Franz Liszt, and the piano accompaniment was orchestrated by Hector Berlioz. Hans Werner Henze created an Orchesterfantasie über Goethes Gedicht und Schuberts Opus 1 aus dem Ballett "Le fils de l'air". There is also a transcription for solo violin by the violin virtuoso Heinrich Wilhelm Ernst, considered one of the most technically difficult pieces to play for the instrument."

 

I've just posted my thoughts about the selections in a PM to Scott, hopefully many more will follow!

 

Hopefully. This is a challenging piece. And even though we are skipping the whole ranking thng feel free to tell us what your favorites were and why and which ones you disliked and why. Not looking for PC responses.

 

I am looking forward to listening to these selections (I'm too tired and ready for bed tonight). I am sort of familiar with the Schubert song but have not heard Liszt's transcription so it should be interesting to hear.
Thanks for going to the trouble.

 

Thanks Adam9 for joining in and giving this another bump!

 

wow. This one has been a complete failure. 1 participant. not really expecting much of a conversation to follow. oh well....

 

Don't worry, Scott - I will send you a PM soon.

 

Sorry about that.

I think maybe it was just a bad week to be running this sort of thing, what with many people on holiday and it being the final week of the Olympics (especially with the fierce competition between USA and China in the medals table). Also, I hate to say this, but the ranking bit may actually have been what attracted what few participants there were to previous blind comparisons - and maybe the complex nature of the piece was a bit too much for those (assuming there were any apart from myself and Adam9) who took the trouble to download and play these, as most of the other pieces have been relatively short and/or simple?

It was a nice idea anyway and a great choice of piece - perhaps you could give this another week with a few more reminders in the CMC thread and see what input you get.

 

Okay. I listened to them all and then partially re-listened.

I think the best one is #4 because it's just "possessed"-sounding enough to generate the necessary excitement for the fast portions, and the middle section gently sings with restrained wistful musings. Overall #4 isn't overly mechanical like some of the others, and it isn't so relentlessly, sloppily insane as to be a caricature of itself and/or grating like some of the others. The only major complaint I have about #4 is that it's just a little sloppy at the very beginning.

Honorable mention to #1 and #6, the latter somehow endears even with its stupefyingly exaggerated pile-driving; i left feeling dirty, but more alive.

 

The comments via PM.


Tangledupinblue


I've listened to the set twice, but have not yet absorbed enough to come to a very detailed analysis - I'll post more of my thoughts to you later when I've listened to it again in better quality on my own laptop, and when I've studied Schubert's word painting more closely - hopefully I can find a decent English translation as my knowledge of German is severely limited!

Despite my your, George's and drh's very educational blind comparison contributions which have really helped me overcome my earlier distaste towards earlier classical recordings in general, I have to say with this set, the newer the better. All of the older recordings, even #8 (more on that later), contained all of the things I dislike about a lot of interpretations from that era - I can put up with the inferior sound quality as that's to be expected, but I'm certainly not a fan of excessive rubato, wilful avoidance of strict time-keeping and a steady rhythmic sense (qualities which to me are essential to this piece for the most part), passion far overriding care and polished technique. The first two (my least favourite of the set) were the worst culprits in all these respects, and #4, after a really promising first half degenerated into a whole load of splashed notes and a chaotic hyper-sped-up climax. Almost of all the performances had an annoying tendency to unnecessarily speed up during that dissonant episode, something that even #3 wasn't unguilty of.

However, that said, #3 was probably my favourite (although I'm going to try to avoid bringing ranking into the discussion as much as I can!) - it had the best balance of poetic Lisztian pianism and Schubertian expression and had a good fast tempo without being too wild and maintained the drama and horror of the piece well; #5 came close and also benefited from keeping a steady pulse throughout. Looking at the time of 4:33 as the foobar2000 window opened up, I thought I'd hate #6, but its slower tempo and relatively elephantine touch captures the ominous mood and impending doom well, even if the horse sounds more like one being rode through a military parade by a rider banging a drum than the frantically galloping one the song is supposed to portray, and it built to an exciting climax. #7 after an inauspicious start was another good one, even in most cases I don't care so much for live recordings. #8 was another typical old-school performance, but for some reason the usual things didn't bother me so much as the others; the dramatic narrative of the playing, clearly just as inspired by Goethe's story as Schubert was, gripped and compelled me enough to make me mostly overlook its technical imperfections.

Pt 2 coming soon...

I'm posting this not long after a more or less non-stop 230-mile drive after only five hours' sleep so I hope this makes some sense. Nothing like as much to add as I think I'd already said most of what there was to say in Pt 1 - #3 remains my favourite, #1 is probably the worst.

Just a few words first about the piece itself; looking at the score itself (yes, I know it's Liszt's arrangement, but he seems pretty faithful to Schubert's original) I'm amazed at the drama, vast emotional range and highly ingenious characteristic key changes all concentrated within a mere 3-4 minutes. It's like Schubert's Stairway to Heaven, only even more remarkably, it achieves its impact in half the time and he was only 18 when he wrote it! What a talent - unbelievable that this didn't sent shock waves within and beyond Vienna that should have already catapulted him towards the fame and recognition that Beethoven enjoyed from a not much older age onwards - I mean, who else was writing songs of this power and innovation in 1815?

Going back to the selections, I was probably a bit harsh on #2; like with #1 it was a very old recording, this one probably being even older, and I may have just got the two somewhat blurred together. In fact, the speeding up and mi**** notes didn't really become a problem until towards the end, and any minor imperfections elsewhere would have been put in a less unflattering light had the SQ been better - the performance still had a good pace and a pleasing lyricism to it.

To elaborate on my rather insubstantial assessment of #7, while it wasn't up to the level of #3, #5 or even #6 (a bit murky and overpedalled, especially near the beginning) it showed an impressive technique (those repeated notes are not easy!) and an exciting impetus which made its somewhat rushed nature in this case justified. Sounds an oldish recording, if less obviously so than #1, #2 and #8; the interpretation is still quite romantic. Once again I enjoyed the mad rush near the finish in #8, before the heartbreaking halt that summons the tragic ending.

Sorry you're struggling to get any participants (see my comments on thread), but I still look forward to hearing these being revealed!

Adam9

First of all, thank you for putting this up. Although it's work for me to listen to 8 interpretations of a piece numerous times and decide on comments, (and even more work for you) it really helps me to get "inside" a piece, which I probably would not ordinarily do. As well, stuff that was previously unfamiliar to me becomes familiar. For example the other day, I was listening to a piano recital on the radio and the Scriabin piece which was done on these series of threads some months ago was played. Recognized it instantly!
Anyway, here are some comments after 2 run-throughs:

1. Dynamic, with good contrast of LH and RH dynamics. Beautifully soft RH. The different voices come through distinctly: the narrator, the father, the son, and the erlkonig.

2. I found this was my least favourite. The recording quality didn't help. Besides, this I found the playing, although dramatic, lacked sensitivity. I also though it a bit lugubrious and unsure at times.

3. Fast and vigorous. Good dynamics, especially the ending, but perhaps not as dramatic as #1. The imitation of the hoofbeats was very arresting. the voice of the erlkonig was as seductive as could be.

4. Well-recorded, dramatic, powerful LH and a seductive erlkonig voice.

5. I found the interpretation somewhat flat. Very straightforward reading. I found the RH melody a bit too "precious", maybe trying too hard.

6. Vigorous, very 'heavy", hoofbeats obvious, authoritative opening.

7. The melody comes out nicely. Flowing, dynamic. The various voices come through distinctly.

8. Majestic sounding melody line, "floating" at times. Plenty of drama and the tension builds nicely. Some dynamics lacking at end.
__________________

 

Tangledupinblue, I agree with you on the amount of emotional range packed into this work. However, isn't it supposed to speed up at the ending? The father is riding as fast as possible, as per the markings on the score: as fast as possible.

 

Well I'll admit I missed the "il piu presto possible" bit at the end, but presumably that means being able to play the piece as fast as possible while still keeping it under control. There were plenty of other places where the pianists sped up not indicated in the score (precipitato is more an expression mark, like agitato, than a tempo change) and in a lot of cases it sounded just rushed and messy. I did say the pianist in #8 pulled off the final speeding up well, and that was one of the older recordings.

 

Got a bit of unexpected time--sorry I'm late, but I've not read anything in the thread beyond what's on offer. Unfortunately, time got cut short, so all I can give you is raw notes. I will say that I'm no fan of Liszt's take on my favorite composer....

The piece loses immensely for lack of a vocalist.

1. Nice tone but rather low-voltage. Don't like the little interpolation from the Wanderer Fantasy.

2. Acoustic. This is romantic playing with authority--and I still don't like it. That said, it generates some real heat toward the end.

3. Exellent--if you're going to strip away the singer, this is the way to do it. Urgent, and through tonal contrast the pianist characterizes all the players strongly. Conveys the tragic ending to perfection. A real tour de force.

4. On the right track, but tonal control falls short of no. 3 (3 stays this side of harsh, and the lovely soft tone on display there shows every tonal choice is deliberate, while this one sometimes falls over the line), and the constant slowing down for the Erlking's passages destroys the momentum.

5. Again, harsh tone, and too much pulling around of the tempo. Too much Liszt, too little Schubert.

6. Bang! Bang! Schubert's dead!

7. A conception like no. 3, but 3 does it better.

8. Acoustic again. Urgency is there, as is characterization; I like it. With more up to date recording would rival no. 3, I think.

 

Some of the Liszt-Schubert transciptions are admittedly somewhat OTT, but I enjoy quite a lot of them, and I actually think this is one of his best. Guess you wouldn't want to hear his "bastardization" of Der Lindenbaum then!

 

I am a huge fan of Liszt's transcription of Gretchen am Spinnrade

 

I'd love to hear that played - as a pianist, I find it almost impossible. How are you supposed to play a convincing legato melody with sustained notes when the RH part of the accompaniment keeps getting in the way?

 

It is my understanding that it is a notoriously difficult piece. i think I'll down load a couple versions and post them.