Those raised on the '87 CD of F. Zappa's "Hot Rats": your opinion re. original mix?

...whether the 2008 Bernie Grundman-remastered LP or the newly released CD? How do you like/hate it?

My daughter's (now aged 24) initial taste of Zappa was the '87 CD version of HR, a couple of years ago. She loves this album, and she can't stand the original mix; finds it boxy, featureless and lacking in aural excitement.

Me, I'm 54 and was raised on the old LP. But I still love the '87 CD for what it is ...though I suppose all in all I prefer the sound of the old mix and, of course, the long sax solo!

 

I like the bass-less intro of "Willie The Pimp" in the remix, and I like that FZ was able to get rid of the high pitch whine going on during his guitar solo. (I think this is Sugarcane Harris playing violin, muted in the mix but leaking into other players' mics.)

I also like the short improvised bit by Ian Underwood on clarinet at the end of "Peaches En Regalia" that is not audible in the original mix.

 

Never noticed that! Thanks!

Also in the old CD, I love Sugarcane's percussive bowing in the first verse of WtP.

(...And I should have wrote "BUT, of course, the long sax solo"...)

 

I am happy to own both, I dont think one version trumps the other.

Peaches is definitely better on the remix. The old mix sounds more jazzy to me.

 

I loves Hot Rats period !

both are groovy in my book !

 

I like the dueling sax lines in the original "Son of Green Geenes" that was rendered piquant in the remix. Also, I'm not sure but I remember hearing different guitar solo parts in the two version of "Willie the Pimp". And the long form Sax Solo is essential in "Gumbo"

Other than that, I'm not sure which overall sound I like best; depends on the day and time of the year for me. Glad to have them both.

 

True. In fact both Willie and Gumbo have some guitar passages heard in the original mix that are not in the remix, and vice versa.

 

I have the original US vinyl, and the '87 CD. Love 'em both!

 

I really like the '87 remix for those new edits... in spite that it is hard on the ear! But the part from the '69 mix I have always missed so much is the section right after the guitar solo on "It Must Be A Camel", where the grand piano left hand is very active and does those beautiful things, maybe doubled or harmonized by a clarinet... all drowned out in the '87 mix I'll never understand why!...

 

Gotta have both!

Insofar as I'm not married to any particular engineering philosophy, the remix sounds perfectly fine to me, even if it's different and "unauthentic" compared to the original.

Very important album with two distinct presentations.

Win-win.

 

The fun thing is you get to actually hear Ian Underwood's breathing power gradually diminish along the way... Whereas in the original mix/edit, he goes from full form to sounding out-of-breath from one edit cut to the next... That original editing was so swift, I used to think it was a whole take and that IU was really not such a hot player on the tenor sax...

 

Can't help but agree with the general consensus...both are great and no need to be overly critical of either. I can see how it would be easy to prefer the improved fidelity and stereo separation of the CD. I grew up on that one too, and heard it a thousand times, so when I finally scored an original vinyl copy last year it was like hearing it for the first time! So many differences.

 

I never could find the original Hot Rats back in the day so I 'grew up' on the 87 mix. I've only heard the original mix a handful of times. I just bought the HR reissue with original mix so I'll be getting better acquainted. In general I prefer the sound/timbres of the original mix but think that some of the arrangements are better fleshed out in the 87 mix. Of course my thoughts are bound to change as I give the old mix more listens.

 

I was raised on the 87 mix and I never much liked the album. I recently heard the vinyl mix and liked it so much more.

 

I do love the syncopated acoustic guitar at 0:55 of "Willie The Pimp" which is almost buried in the original mix. But I prefer the original mix overall.

 

The new CD with the '08 Grundman remaster is my favorite. It holds together better and reminds me of the original Bizarre LP but with better impact and clarity.

 

I think that's Sugarcane's violin (the "percussive bowing" ParloFax also mentioned).

Listening to both mixes again recently, it sounds like there is some sloppy rhythm in Beefheart's multitracked vocals audible in the original mix, but hidden in the remix.

 

I enjoy both the original mix and the '87 remix. Like gd0 says above, they're two distinct presentations.

The original mix feels really 1960s. It has some wonky and kitschy parts. My biggest dislike is that some songs feel sluggish compared to the '87 remix.

If I were allowed to listen to one version only for the rest of my life, I'd be okay with either. If you put a gun to my head to choose, I might pick the '87 remix.

Suppose someone owns one version, but not the other. Is it worth seeking out the other? For me, that's yes, because I do listen to this album a lot, and I like the change. I'm not so sure that a casual fan, whichever version they have, needs to pick up the other version. It's just a different presentation.

 

Yes. Some things were added that are wonderful, such as the recorder "solo" in "Little Umbrellas", which balances heavy with light. I still love the elephantine string bass-only solo of the original version... But I also equally love the '87 version with the recorder!

To get back again to "Camel" - the only track which I really have trouble with in the remix - I hate that one of the 2-bar guitar breaks before the drums solo jumps out at you very loudly, whereas in the original version the guitar in this piece felt like part of the orchestra. OTOH, Jean-Luc Ponty's violin is more prominent, which is good in this case...

 

I like both. I had a boss in the early 90s that played the cassette at work all the time. I listened to the 2012 version in the car on the way to work this morning and like the way the instruments pinged from one speaker to the other. Really nice stereo separation.

 

"Raised on...in 1987 " I was 29 in 1987.

 

A BOSS who had a cassette of...

Do I feel old now...

 

I'm one that was "raised on the 1987 version," as the Ryko Hot Rats was the first Zappa CD I bought (I'd listened to Strictly Commercial from the library). I've never heard the vinyl.

In places, it's a brand new listening experience. "Peaches" sounds completely different, as do parts of "Willie" and "Son." Every song on the 2012 release has clearer instruments, and sounds more lifelike.

I'll probably keep both, as they're pretty different.

 

I'm 24 as well. The original mix is far superior

 

That's interesting. I own the Grundman-mastered LP (original mix) but not the new CD yet. It seemed so far to me that some punters (including our daughter) found the old mix muddy in comparison.

As an aside, I did buy the new "Burnt Weeny Sandwich" and found that once volume-matched it sounded exactly, to my ear and on my stuff, like the original US LP. There is a little glitch/drop-out though, on "Aybe Sea", which me and at least one other member have found. If interested, you may check the details out on the big Zappa catalogue reissue thread.